Adam Stacoviak: [40:04] That’s how I do it, is SSH. I just image with the Raspberry Pi Lite, move along, add the SSH file to the root, SSH into it, it gets an IP address from my DHCP server, so it’s pretty simple there… If not, I can hop into Unify and see “Okay, which devices on my network was the IP address?”, find it, log in via SSH, add my key, do some additional stuff… These are thing that – I don’t use Ansible, so these are things I could probably eventually automate… Like you had said, where you’re updating your operating system, doing different things like that… But I’m manually doing things. Now, I have two Pi’s, so it’s not that hard, but…

The additional thing I do that’s probably not necessary, but it’s a nicety if you want it, is enable the VNC server inside the Raspberry Pi. I use a Mac, so I can use the screen-sharing tool, or the remote app that lets people remotely access other Macs on the network; I use that essentially to visually see the screen. You said before, with adding a monitor, HDMI - I skip all that. I buy the absolute base-level Pi. And SSD - I happen to go with 64 gigs, because I’m just slightly crazier than you…

Gerhard Lazu: Thank you, Priyanka. That was great. So this, the title which I’m thinking is “The pre-happy hour with Priyanka.” I intend on joining that session, because that’s an amazing one. So even if you’re at the conference or you’re remote, that is the one place where we can all come together, and I’m really looking forward to that.

Thank you, Priyanka. This was great.

Sid Sijbrandij: Yeah. People have more options, and it’s great. I suspect that companies are gonna become more differentiated. If you could only hire the people within some radius of your office, you wanted to make sure that there wasn’t any argument against you. Now that people can join you from anywhere, I think you have the option as a company to be more opinionated, and say “Okay, this is what we stand for, and this is what we don’t stand for.” And it’s not that one is right and one is wrong. We’re transparent and we iterate. Apple is secretive and they have big launches. Both models work. Apple was a more successful company than GitLab. But we really believe in our model, and we wanna attract people who also believe in that. And there’s enough options if you work remote to go somewhere else. And we don’t need 100% of the world to wanna work for us. We can still hire more than enough people if only part of the population believes in that.

So I look forward to more choice, and not just because there’s a greater demand for talent, which is amazing, but also because people are gonna be more picky. They want a company that matches the values that they have.

Peer Richelsen: We are fully remote, fully async. We don’t have any recurring meetings on the team; only some optional check-ins, if you want to. We use Cal for our internal meetings… [laughs] So if you ever want to do a pair programming session, everyone has a pair programming link, and you just book someone and jump on a call.

[01:04:01.04] I made a tweet the other day of how async companies can make use of scheduling products, because I fundamentally think async-first doesn’t mean async-only. We still need eye-to-eye conversations. And the rate of information we both are exchanging is probably 100 times higher than if I were to send you an async document and then you send it back. And I think a lot of companies have this culture of, “Hey, let’s jump on a call”, or just randomly call you. That’s a no-go for us. We always schedule calls, and we take– if it’s a non-priority, we move it at the end of the week, let’s say, if it’s something that’s not urgent. And sometimes by Thursday, you cancel the event on Friday, because it’s just been fixed or something.

So we really want this async culture, and having a scheduling link also gives the other person the control, because you can book out your busy times. You can put in calendar events for focus time. I use Clockwise, which is like a Google calendar extension to help me block my productivity hours. So even though we are working on a sync product, it’s actually helping us run asynchronous, which is fantastic… Because not everything can be asynchronous, like drop interviews or calls with investors, or closing calls or podcasts. [laughs] These things will always be synchronous, and we want to make sure that having a synchronous meetup is as pleasant as possible.

Zach Lloyd: We considered both. So what it would mean for Warp to not be compatible - I really think it’s probably we would write our own shell. And we may eventually do that. The real downside - well, there’s a bunch of downsides to doing that. The downsides are people having existing configuration and setups for their shells, so we would have to have some way of importing that, which I think is actually maybe doable. The real thing that’s very, very hard with it is the remote shell use case, where we want Warp to work if you are connecting to a remote machine, and the person who’s running Warp on their Mac might not actually be able to install or configure anything on that remote machine.

So that’s where it necessitates some level of compatibility, because SSH and remote work is important to people who use the terminal. So that kind of made the decision “Okay, let’s start with the compatibility approach”, and then I think at some point we will write a shell at some point; I just think we’ll probably do it at a point where Warp has enough traction that we feel like we can ease people into that, rather than betting the whole product experience on it.

Gerhard Lazu: That makes sense. Okay. Is there like a single remote environment that everyone uses, or…?

Jerod Santo: Happy to have you. We’re gonna talk long and deep about Postgres, about relational databases, about Postgres.js, about Node, about Deno, about SQL queries… All sorts of things. But before we do that, it’s time for our regular segment, Holla. Holla, of course, is a time that we take to holla at upcoming community events, meetup groups, conferences, whatever needs a holla. And today, I want to mention two back-to-back conferences happening in Amsterdam in June, JS Nation and React Summit.

JS Nation is a two-day, two-track event, it focuses exclusively on JavaScript dev, it’s in Amsterdam, like I said, on June 16th is the in-person event and June 20th is online. React Summit is the next day, in the exact same location. Same people throwing it, obviously focused on React… It’s the biggest React conference worldwide, June 17th in Amsterdam, and then June 21st remote. So these are hybrid events, people are getting back together, and JS Party plans on being a part of both of those conferences. We are still in the works, in the planning stages about exactly how we’re gonna be involved, but at the moment we’re planning to send Nick Nisi there.

So if you are in the Amsterdam area and can hit up those two confs, come see us there. If you cannot and you still wanna be involved - of course, they are dual, IRL plus hybrid. Awesome stuff. Shout-out to JS Nation and React Summit, happening on June 16th and 17th. Links in the show notes to check out what those conferences are all about. This has been Holla.

[04:18] Alright, Rasmus, back to you. So Postgres… You have this library, quite popular, quite fast; it looks quite good. I’ve been scouring the readme, checking it all out. I’m a Postgres junkie from a long time back, so this speaks to me… And I wanted to bring you on to talk about it. It’s hit v3, you’ve been working on it for a while. We’re gonna get into the library itself, how you can use it, why you might wanna use it, how it’s built etc. But first, let’s talk about Postgres as a thing, or relational databases as a thing. Because there’s lots of options when you’re building the application - how and why are you gonna store your data… Relational databases are as old as time at this point. They were cool, they weren’t cool, now they’re kind of cool again… Help the folks decide, or maybe give us your perspective on why pick a relational database versus a document database like Mongo, or a key-value store, or a Firebase… There’s lots of options for JS apps. What’s up with relational databases? Why do you like them?

Jerod Santo: “The Verge has obtained an internal email from Apple’s CEO, Tim Cook, in which he reacts to numerous complaints from Apple employees about the Cupertino-based organization’s return to office strategy. Cook urges people to be patient, and says that plans are underway to take the company remote as soon as it makes sense.”

I feel like that was a pretty good description by me… Okay, next one. Good job. It’s not Jerod 3, Kball 2. So we’ve got a game.

“Woman arrested for car theft drove another stolen car to court appearance, according to Dublin police.”

Adam Stacoviak: This kind of reminds me, Jerod, of when we talked to Jessica about mob programming. I don’t know if you’ve heard of this before, Brian, but this idea that you can mob-program. You can get together, four or five people, and it could be a designer, it could be a developer, sharing the same terminal, all focused on the same problem set, but they’re probably in most cases remote. I think in many ways that is trying to recreate what you all had back in Bell Labs. And obviously, in that day you had no choice; that machine was not mobile, so you had to be collocated with it… And in many cases, while it was a massive machine, underpowered in comparison to today’s machines… You know, you even mentioned the PDP-7 was kind of obsolete, which is what the Unix was born on. I kind of wonder if the reason why Unix can run on commodity hardware is because it was designed to work on a machine that had limits; so those limits would always be constrained. So a piece of commodity hardware would be limited, but eventually cheaper… I’m wondering if that might be a similarity there.

Toby Padilla: So all of that SSH mechanic behind the scenes is happening through Wish. And so Charm is a Wish app and Wish library that applications like Glow can use to satisfy any kind of storage or encryption or persistence or identity use cases. There are third-party Wish apps that are starting to come out. We saw two Wordle clones launch in the last three weeks over SSH. Play Wordle over SSH. And they’re really great. One of them, Clidle, was on the top of our Golang on Reddit all last week. I don’t have its URL off the top of my head, but it’s a great implementation of Wordle over SSH. And people loved it. Something about this resonates with people; it’s kind of like the BBS days, or something… Just the fact that you can be on the command line, you can use SSH, and all of a sudden you’re playing Wordle, is kind of a neat idea. And you can even score stuff, because it keeps your public key, or whatever… I know that they’re working on a lot of this stuff, but it’s like “Hey, identity, plus remote access…” I didn’t install anything; I didn’t install Wordle. I just had SSH lying around and I was able to use this thing.

So we saw two of those launch… And then some kind of like toy kind of stuff… But it’s pretty new. Wish is like – I think a month-and-a-half it’s been out in the wild, or something like that. So it’s all relatively new. But it’s exciting to start seeing people not just build stuff with it, but gain some success. So we love it when people build with our tools, and then they go to the top of Hacker News, or they’re trending on GitHub, or something. They’re able to build something that resonates with the community, with the tools we’re giving them; that’s pretty neat.

There’s a lot of popular Bubble Tea apps. Bubble Tea has almost 500 applications that have been built with Bubble Tea. It’s been out there a little longer. There’s a thing called Slides this guy Maas created, and it’s the second most popular Bubble Tea app besides Glow, in terms of being just like a pure Bubble Tea app… And it’s like PowerPoint for the terminal. Like I mentioned, the official GitHub client is using Glamour, it’s not using Bubble Tea, but that’s like a very big distribution of one of our libraries. Min.io and their official command line tool is using Bubble Tea. That’s a new thing. Supabase - I know you had the founder on recently; they in their official command line client are using Bubble Tea.

[01:12:55.15] So we’re starting to see good Bubble Tea distribution and some pretty large, pretty hot projects… And a bunch of fun stuff, too. There’s just fun projects that people make with Bubble Tea. Mergestat is a great one; this is “Treat your Git repo like a SQL database, and run SQL against it.” He had a functioning tool, and then he kind of discovered our stuff and started layering more and more. He tweeted that, he’s like “I just added a bunch of Bubble Tea stuff to mergestat. I’m gonna add all the Charm stuff to it.” Like, yes, please do. That’s awesome. So we’re seeing people get excited about it, build it, and then achieve some success with it, which is neat.

Gerhard Lazu: I know that the last couple of years, two to be more precise, have been really tough mentally for many of us; all the lockdowns, all the social distancing, conferences, everything remote, lots and lots of meetings… It’s been tough for a lot of people. And I know that some of my closer friends are the ones that have been struggling mentally. And I’m wondering, what is the difference between having ADHD and just being burned out?

Alon Klein Orback: It’s a good question. I think we can see two paths to start the training. One place is from the data, as you spoke, and the other place is for the researchers who want to test the code, or new experiment, new model etc, and you want to fire a training.

So when we started - let’s take the example for the researcher, just going to his IDE, just connects to the remote workspace that is on Kubernetes, Kubeflow, Jupyters and so on, and he’s just playing there, and he just clicks remote-execute it. This runs to Moses’ servers and tells the ClearML system to speak, to log everything, like “Okay, I want to use this container, and this is the changes I did.” Like Moses said, it does not create new containers for every step. It just keeps the changes. Moses, if I’m saying something wrong here, feel free to fix me.

And then it goes to Moses’ servers, and then from there, it’s going back to our servers as our agent that Moses spoke about, that is the glue, and this starts the training. So this is the training, and the training continuously reports to ClearML, to the main server, what’s the status, and then what’s the metrics. And once we have metrics, we can decide one of the two, if we are free a new version for testing on the edge, or we stop there and just keep this track and moving on.

Toby Padilla: So all of that SSH mechanic behind the scenes is happening through Wish. And so Charm is a Wish app and Wish library that applications like Glow can use to satisfy any kind of storage or encryption or persistence or identity use cases. There are third-party Wish apps that are starting to come out. We saw two Wordle clones launch in the last three weeks over SSH. Play Wordle over SSH. And they’re really great. One of them, Clidle, was on the top of our Golang on Reddit all last week. I don’t have its URL off the top of my head, but it’s a great implementation of Wordle over SSH. And people loved it. Something about this resonates with people; it’s kind of like the BBS days, or something… Just the fact that you can be on the command line, you can use SSH, and all of a sudden you’re playing Wordle, is kind of a neat idea. And you can even score stuff, because it keeps your public key, or whatever… I know that they’re working on a lot of this stuff, but it’s like “Hey, identity, plus remote access…” I didn’t install anything; I didn’t install Wordle. I just had SSH lying around and I was able to use this thing.

So we saw two of those launch… And then some kind of like toy kind of stuff… But it’s pretty new. Wish is like – I think a month-and-a-half it’s been out in the wild, or something like that. So it’s all relatively new. But it’s exciting to start seeing people not just build stuff with it, but gain some success. So we love it when people build with our tools, and then they go to the top of Hacker News, or they’re trending on GitHub, or something. They’re able to build something that resonates with the community, with the tools we’re giving them; that’s pretty neat.

There’s a lot of popular Bubble Tea apps. Bubble Tea has almost 500 applications that have been built with Bubble Tea. It’s been out there a little longer. There’s a thing called Slides this guy Maas created, and it’s the second most popular Bubble Tea app besides Glow, in terms of being just like a pure Bubble Tea app… And it’s like PowerPoint for the terminal. Like I mentioned, the official GitHub client is using Glamour, it’s not using Bubble Tea, but that’s like a very big distribution of one of our libraries. Min.io and their official command line tool is using Bubble Tea. That’s a new thing. Supabase - I know you had the founder on recently; they in their official command line client are using Bubble Tea.

[01:15:56.15] So we’re starting to see good Bubble Tea distribution and some pretty large, pretty hot projects… And a bunch of fun stuff, too. There’s just fun projects that people make with Bubble Tea. Mergestat is a great one; this is “Treat your Git repo like a SQL database, and run SQL against it.” He had a functioning tool, and then he kind of discovered our stuff and started layering more and more. He tweeted that, he’s like “I just added a bunch of Bubble Tea stuff to mergestat. I’m gonna add all the Charm stuff to it.” Like, yes, please do. That’s awesome. So we’re seeing people get excited about it, build it, and then achieve some success with it, which is neat.

Mauricio Salatino: So I would go for more like a GitOps approach, and I would love to have my application closed to just an application repository where I can just change it, and then it gets built automatically for me somewhere remote, and then it gets updated into that cluster.

Because I’m talking about Knative, I would expect to be able to – something that I haven’t seen implemented that much, but different vendors are implementing something similar… That when you make a change and you have a new version available from that, you can choose how much traffic to route with it, or some constraints on which traffic is going to be hitting that new version as well.

I would love to see the entire cycle automated… And with Func, it’s something that we are doing now. We are doing on-cluster builds. So basically you create the function that is local, and then you can just connect that through a Git repository, and then trigger the build on deploy in a remote fashion… Or you can do it locally as well.

Jerod Santo: I just preemptively know that you’re gonna troll me. But you know, there’s a very small scene, and there was more of a scene before; there really isn’t one now. And if there is - you know, I’m getting old and kind of aging out of social scenes anyways. But for me, what’s changed – first of all, I love the access to opportunity for more people… Like, how cool is that? But from my vantage point what’s changed mostly is people are way more comfortable with online/remote communications; it’s made podcasting way easier, sounding better… People are used to being on Zoom all day, or they’ve invested in their setups, and that’s been a cool side effect of this from a podcasting perspective. It’s like, “Wow, we can have much better, higher-quality conversations with more people, because they’re prepared for it.” Whereas it used to be a lot of hand-holding, a lot of technical issues… And there’s some people that their setup just couldn’t – we were just never gonna have them on a podcast. And it’s just because of circumstantial things. And of course, access to high-quality internet is now more important than ever, and we’re starting to see municipalities and other government entities investing into those things and providing those as utilities, or as a way of drawing people to your area… I think that’s really cool, too. Just a lot of like trickle-down effects of this change. Alright, that’s you, Kball. Amelia - it’s your turn. Story of the week.

Jerod Santo: [03:48] So the original decision was due to a couple of things, the main thing of which was my inexperience with Elixir as a programming language, and my desire to keep it simple. And the post-processing upon upload of our MP3 files, which are quite large, versus like an avatar, which is not a big deal, was – with my skill set at the time problematic in a remote sense. So I was like, “Hey, keep it simple. We have this huge disc, old school. Upload it to the disc that’s sitting right there, and keep it all local, keep it all compact. It’s the easy button, and that’s going to get us to production faster.” So you know, maybe this is a technical depth that we just took on knowingly knowing that. I had built web apps where I would upload to S3 prior to this one. So it wasn’t like it was an unknown thing at the time. It was a decision to be made, and I made that decision, and it didn’t cause any problems for many years, and then it started to. And so it’s just in time, or maybe a little bit late, but it’s priorities at a certain point. It just became not a priority, until it became a priority, and I think our work with Gerhard on the platform changes started to percolate, like “Yeah, this is a problem. Here’s why. And it becomes more and more a problem”, and then finally you’re like “Okay, this thing is now– it’s time.”

Adam Stacoviak: Back to the flexibility of Git though - I think that’s what makes it so cool, that it is so flexible… Back to your example, Annie, between React and Rails. You know, there’s just so much you could do with it, and so I think that’s why it’s such a good fit and why it’s actually lasted so long. Like, why it won and why it’s lasted, despite reset seeming scary because of what it actually names, or the way you would delete a branch to a remote repository by pushing, and despite the odd API sometimes with Git, and some of the scary innards, it’s so flexible. It lets you and your team work the way you want, other teams work the way they want. It’s really about leveraging its tooling inside of Git to work the way you need to for a team to collaborate in the way that it actually works out on GitHub itself.

Vincent Ambo: So in Git, my preferred way of creating revision numbers is actually kind of implicit. So what you do is you count the number of commits in your current branch, and you use that as the revision number.

There is one complexity here, which is that if you are using merge-based development strategies, you can end up with two different points in the repository that have the same number of commits. So in that case, the number of commits is not actually unique. But Git has a feature for this in its command for counting the number of commits, which essentially lets you traverse only one side of a merge tree.

For example, you are always sticking to the left side of the merge tree, meaning that the merge commit itself is counted, but the things included by that merge from somewhere else are not. And then you get unique, monotonically increasing version/revision numbers for Git.

[36:08] We have a setup in the TVL repository where our CI system, whenever a commit makes it to the head branch, which is called canon for us, a new revision number is created and pushed to Git as a ref… Which means that you can run a git fetch command locally and you get the refs that exist in the remote, and you have the same revision numbers locally.

But even if you don’t run this fetch command, there’s a one-line shell command that you can run locally that will use your CPU for a couple of minutes while it’s going through the Git history, and it will yield the exact same numbers as remotely So you’re not really dependent on keeping the state anywhere, as long as the actual Git hashes are the same.

Paul Copplestone: Yeah, there’s a lot to talk about when it comes to community. The team is 35, fully remote, everywhere. Then in terms of non-core team, we have like a squad of people that we pay through OpenCollective as well, for some maintenance… And then yeah, in terms of contributors - I mean, a lot. I don’t know actually the numbers; I think it was 275 on our main repo when I last looked. But then we’ve got so many repos, and there’s repos outside of our organization which we support, with employees, or otherwise, financially. So yeah, I think overall, hopefully we’re leaking out and providing benefits to other people as well.

Then in terms of growth, I think if we take maybe GitHub stars, if you use that as a metric - it’s going very well. Obviously, a lot of interest. I think for five consecutive quarters we’ve been in the top 15 fastest-growing by GitHub stars… So yeah.

I think I mapped it out on one of the days - our main repo is growing as fast as React was when it launched… Which is nice, because React is by Facebook, so it obviously had a lot more eyes than we did when we started.

Gerhard Lazu: Okay. So in your experience – I mean, we’ve been talking about my connection quite a bit. But I’m wondering, in your experience, what does a good home connection look like? And I think about remote workers - what should they care about? How would they go about setting it up? What would you recommend? And first of all, what does it look like?

Amelia Wattenberger: I have a lot of thoughts here, because my job is pretty much focused on the future of developer experience, but the two things I’m most excited about are making collaboration remotely easier between developers… So this isn’t like more multi-cursor, this is like “How do we –” Like, in between multi-cursor and the Metaverse, like how do we make it so that remote development teams can work together seamlessly, and share what they’re doing, and kind of like an automated way. So you’re not just like sending Slack updates or having video calls.

And the other thing I’m really excited about is it feels like we’re moving more towards - at least in my little frontend world, it’s like there’s the code, but there’s also like “What is the code produced?” So it feels like the focus for a long time has been on “What is the syntax? What does the code look like? Let’s share diffs.” But for me, at least what I’ve seen is it’s moving more towards like “What is this code building? What tools can we build on top of that?”

[28:02] So this is like no-code tools, and GUIs, more in that direction. It feels like we’ve solved a lot of these cases on the web, and like “How can we make it easier for new developers, or people who aren’t developers, to build things?”

Jon Calhoun: I figured if everybody’s going remote, they’re gonna go camping and working.

Hamed Alemohammad: Sure thing. When you think about the whole ecosystem of sustainable development goals, all the data being available, and as I mentioned, working with local partners, one of the missing pieces that we’ve found is we need to train more individuals to be able to solve these problems… Because it is a new field, it is a growing field, it is an impactful field, but we need people to get trained how to use the data, and generally starting with what is satellite imagery, as Joyce mentioned. For that reason, one of the pillars of our work is really training and capacity development.

Earlier this year, back in May of 2021 actually - so we joined efforts with Joyce’s team at Makerere University and got support from the GIZ FAIR Forward program to run a training bootcamp focused on machine learning for Earth observation. And the target for us was there’s a growing community of AI practitioners across Africa; we at Radiant have worked with Data Science Africa, with [unintelligible 00:31:01.02] across different countries, and they are all AI people, but they’re not exposed to the remote sensing work. So the training was outlined in the sense that let’s start exposing them to what is satellite imagery, how you deal with this type of data, how do you access them? I mentioned the APIs and the repositories, but practically, how do you write the Python code to get that type of imagery? And then how do you curate a training dataset when you have the reference data on the ground?

So the lectures were kind of designed in that sense, and we had around 40 participants in that course… And then in the second week of that we were working on practical use cases - how do you build a crop type classification model? How do you build a model for, for example, wind estimation from a cyclone? We’re using, again, satellite imagery that we get regularly. And particularly, we were asking participants to also work on some of those exercises between lectures. So it was hands-on and practical, it wasn’t just lectures.

[31:56] And I think it was a very successful training based on the feedback and the survey we collected from the participants afterwards… And then we packaged that training program into an online course which is now available on the [unintelligible 00:32:07.17] So anybody can go through that course now, on their own pace, and basically start learning about Earth observations, the topics that I mentioned now to you, dealing with machine learning in that sector, and then building your own model. If you finish the course [unintelligible 00:32:23.28] you can also get a certificate, and there’s also a user community on our end… So we have an open Slack workspace; the link is in that course, and it’s basically [unintelligible 00:32:33.26] that anybody can join, ask questions, connect with other peers, share their experience or problem, or look for collaborators in others. So those who participate in that course can also connect to others and basically get feedback from others.

Gerhard Lazu: Right. Oh, that’s a good one. Dag this. It asks me to enter my username… This will be stored encrypted, by the way, because – no, this was to be stored as text; nothing secret, it’s Gerhard, you already guessed it… And then it asks me for my Docker Hub password, so that it can push the image. These are stored encrypted, using SOPS, locally. And then there’s a couple of things here, we’ll skip over them… And then we provide the inputs. Those inputs are important because that’s what the environment, or the plan, or the dag, as Joel mentioned, calls it. So we have the app, which is basically the whole source code… There’s a couple of things that we need from the environment, like the Git SHA, the Git author… Hm. I don’t think I fixed those; I need to fix them. Okay, this is something which still needs to improve; I just realized, going through this now. See? It’s so good we’re doing these things. So helpful.

Cool. So then the Docker host, which is the remote one, it knows how to connect to it… And then it runs the same command that you’ve seen in GitHub Actions. Docker – sorry. Docker… That’s like a Freudian slip. Dagger - Dagger Up, log-level debug, environment CI. And that’s exactly the same thing.

The other part of this is obviously the CI queue. And this is like all the code that actually declares the pipeline. And what is this ci.queue? How would you describe it?

Colin Humphreys: This is confusing the last two questions, what Chris is saying. So firstly, we test Kratix by using mesh space fit forward and we have a set of sample promises. We have a Redis promise and a Postgres promise which we inject testing it’s all working testing we’re doing all the right things with those promises. Manage the life cycle of the promises. I think Chris was conflating that maybe with the Argo CD things you were touching on, and being like effectively what do we use for our CI server internally. Because right now, effectively, we have one pair, myself and Chris, working on the code. We code, we test on our laptops, and we commit. We don’t have CI, because you don’t need to integrate, because it’s just stuff coming from the two of us. So that’s maybe how those things come together.

I did want to touch on that as well - Argo CD… Like, why use Flux rather than Argo? Argo I think is more specific for applications in Kubernetes; it’s a CD server. Whereas Flux is almost like an agent you put out in all of your remote clusters, specifically to pull from repos and stay up to date with those repos. Flux is very much as a whole it’s very much fit for the purpose of what we’re trying to do, and it’s focused on that sole responsibility.

But I think when you said “Your GitOps toolkit” - I wanna be very clear here, it’s not ours. I need to thank lots of people for their contributions. We’re standing on the shoulders of giants here.

Amal Hussein: So Salma, that was really, really profound. And obviously, that’s going to be a running theme for me here, being inspired, for the next 30, 40 minutes. However, you’ve kind of skirted around this - how does accessibility affect new internet users or folks maybe even remote parts of the world? But I think, for me, the core problem is I just feel like developers don’t care. It pains me to say that. And so, my question to you is, “Does accessibility have a marketing problem?” And if we just– I know we said, “Hey, they’re not exactly the same thing”, right? Accessibility is not perf, perf is not accessibility, right? There’s a Venn diagram relationship here.

Roger Peppe: Yeah, but you know, you’re never alone on the internet. [laughter] I mean, that’s pretty much it. I didn’t know of anyone… To be honest, most of the people that come along to the meetup tend to be people that are interested in Go, not people that are actually actively working in Go.

But ever since that first Go job, I’ve been working remotely, so that’s the thing. They don’t have to be anyone in your local area that programs in Go or programs in whatever you want to program in. You can just get a remote job and that’s awesome, because now I’m in the middle of absolutely nowhere, in the wiles of Northumberland, and I’ve got a fine job at Influx, and it’s awesome.

Adam Stacoviak: I like this model, because it focuses them – when you shift this model, it’s gonna probably take a while to transition to it, too… Hopefully not, maybe now with things being so compressed, with remote, and a lot of things that were before, ten years of a transition, I think Covid really transitioned a lot of people into remote world super-fast, so a lot of things are being compressed… But if they could innovation, focus on the innovation versus the sales models of selling you more, and just focus on the innovation - that would be probably a game-changer for just the future.

Adam Stacoviak: And it’s worked great. And then from there, obviously you use the – you can store your passphrase in your keychain with SSH add, and there’s a new flag… Before – I forget what it was. Let me see if I have it in my notes correct here… It was something before, and now it’s –apple-use-keychain. That is the new flag they have for SSH add to add it to your keychain. Then you just do that and you point to your public ID or your public key, and it loads it there. And then to add to your key to other machines, just SSH copy ID, which is ssh-copy-id, and then user @ remote.

Johnny Boursiquot: At this point I think if someone still has a problem with the way Go handles errors – well, I have choice words for you, but this is a family-friendly show… [laughs] Anyways, so… No, the thing is - there’s a lot of truth there. I used to be one of those people complaining about the way Go handles errors when I first came across it. I’m like, “Um, I’m not used to this. I’m used to throwing things, caching things and whatnot…” I’m like, “Where are the keywords? Where are the built-ins for that?” And I realized – the first time I was forced to implement and design a system that was resilient… It just happens to be I was communicating with some remote HTTP service, and I was getting throttled, and I didn’t realize that until it went to production… I’m like, “Oh, okay, I need to do something about this.” And there’s easy ways of getting that. So basically, using the error system to capture the fact that I’m getting throttled, checking those errors and implementing some sort of back-off, and implementing some sort of retry, things like that… *coughs* Excuse me. Yeah, that was a retry. [laughter]