Changelog & Friends – Episode #39

More BMC goodness

featuring Breakmaster Cylinder

All Episodes

Our beat freak in residence returns, this time to discuss the shiny new Dance Party album! We deconstruct its nostalgic mix, break down some of our favorite tracks & even learn that BMC is writing a mysterious book…



FireHydrantThe alerting and on-call tool designed for humans, not systems. Signals puts teams at the center, giving you ultimate control over rules, policies, and schedules. No need to configure your services or do wonky work-arounds. Signals filters out the noise, alerting you only on what matters. Manage coverage requests and on-call notifications effortlessly within Slack. But here’s the game-changer…Signals natively integrates with FireHydrant’s full incident management suite, so as soon as you’re alerted you can seamlessly kickoff and manage your entire incident inside a single platform. Learn more or switch today at

TailscaleAdam loves Tailscale! Tailscale is programmable networking software that’s private and secure by default. It’s the easiest way to connect devices and services to each other, wherever they are. Secure, remote access to production, databases, servers, kubernetes, and more. Try Tailscale for free for up to 100 devices and 3 users at, no credit card required.

Fly.ioThe home of — Deploy your apps and databases close to your users. In minutes you can run your Ruby, Go, Node, Deno, Python, or Elixir app (and databases!) all over the world. No ops required. Learn more at and check out the speedrun in their docs.

Notes & Links

📝 Edit Notes


1 00:00 Let's talk!
2 00:38 Sponsor: FireHydrant
3 03:14 Secrets & Friends
4 04:25 Oontz oontz oontz
5 06:19 A nostalgiac mix
6 08:42 Dance Party CHEER
7 13:01 Bump on a Log
8 14:28 Start with a banger
9 15:19 Making our kids dance
10 19:34 Sponsor: Tailscale
11 22:43 The Halt & Catches
12 25:32 Tetris Schmetris
13 30:48 Adam gushes
14 33:21 Conditioner is better!
15 33:47 Listener VM remixes
16 35:12 Why video game tracks?
17 36:43 Pole Reposition
18 40:22 BMC tries to stall
19 40:58 Adam tries to stall
20 42:47 Oakenfold vs Moby vs BMC
21 50:02 The Orange Knight
22 50:52 Dusk Under a Flaming Moon
23 53:16 What BMC is working on
24 53:53 BMC's book
25 1:00:04 Top Sci-Fi films
26 1:11:51 Back to the book
27 1:12:36 Landing the plane
28 1:15:06 That's our show!


📝 Edit Transcript


Play the audio to listen along while you enjoy the transcript. 🎧

So what I was about to say, and I’ll say now, is that some of our Ship It listeners are on to us. You know what I’m talking about?

The sample in the theme? Oh no, you mean what you’ve done with the theme.

And the outro theme.

Do you know that one? I mean, you wrote it. You made it. We’ve got two samples. Oh, you don’t know we’re using that for an outro now. That’s probably why you’re so confused.

Is it one of the punny ones?

It’s one of the punny ones.

So we’re using the new theme sample as the new theme, and then we’ve replaced the old outro music with the other one.

And our Ship It listeners in this channel, they’re pretty smart people.

They are smart people.

Like, “Wait a second… I know what you guys are trying to do to me.”

Do to us, yeah…

So that’s kind of cool.

Sorry about that…

[laughs] It’s nice to have a secret, like in plain sight, but it’s also nice when that secret kind of slips out for insiders, you know?

Indeed. I like an Easter egg.

Yeah, it’s cool.

Well, here we are… We are hanging out with the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder, our beat freak in residence, our beat master… What else do we call you? BMC…

That’s pretty much it.

“Don’t call me Shirley…” Naked Gun.

That’s ‘80s. It’s going back even further than our Ship It samples… Which we will not name. We’ll let other people figure them out.

Oh, I was wondering. Okay…

We’re here to talk about Dance Party. This is our newest album, out for a few months now…

By Changelog Beats and Breakmaster Cylinder. A collab, as we do. We’ve been collabing for years… And this one’s cool. Basically, we’re like “Hey, BMC, take all of the songs that you’ve made for us, that are danceable, or they’re just like raveable, or you can hear them potentially in a club…” You can imagine them being played loudly at night…

…and put them onto an album.

It can be loud at night.

And you did it.

And I did it.

That’s it. That’s the show. Thank you for doing that.

You’re welcome.

Well, I don’t know if we want to go track by track, because there’s 21 tracks; we might be here a while. I love to talk about the mix overall, because this mix is different than our other albums that you’ve done, intentionally so… People may be wondering if it was an accident or intentional, and this was very much intentional…

So I want to talk about that. Adam, what’s on your agenda to tease out of BMC?

I almost said, oontz-oontz-oontz, but he beat me to it, so…

So we already got that one checked off.

How do you spell oontz, by the way?

I don’t know. Like ounce maybe?

I don’t know if you do the double o, or the –

I would do like oontz.

Yeah, maybe that’s right.

How about you?

Yeah, I agree with the mix of this one was different. You put extra sprinkles of sugar on top of this one I think too, in terms of the detail in the mix, in comparison to others. The fading, and the mixing, and all that stuff.

Tell us about it.

Tell us about it. It was in the ‘90s when I listened a lot of trance CDs, or things like that. You can hear the DJ trying to switch between tracks, and sometimes it goes really well, and sometimes it’s a little clunky; you can hear them do it. And I found that endearing. So I made it deliberately sound like I was trying to get from one to the other, and do it as best as I can, but it wouldn’t be totally perfect… And the beats aren’t like off from each other or anything, but like trying to get one song that’s in one key into another one that’s in a different key… And be creative… I don’t know, it just sounds good. It feels good. You press Play, and then the whole thing doesn’t stop until the end.

Right. Yeah, I like that. What happens is – tell us how it works. So during one track, the next track overlays it for the last n seconds, and it fades from one to the other…

And then if you just start from track three, for instance, it’s just normal. But if you start at the end of track two, there’s – it’s not its own song, right? It’s got some part of the other song into it to allow for that smooth fade.

Yeah. There’s some track three at the end of track two.


I was just listening to it. I guess some of them have little pieces of the previous, but not too obviously, hopefully.

Very little. Yeah.

There’s a couple that are very deliberate, where it comes in with it. And I liked that, honestly. I dug how that worked out. I dug the detail put in there.

Yes, I like details. Also, it was like a nostalgia thing for me. I don’t know if that’s gonna mean a lot to too many other people, but…

I’m jumping the gun a little bit, but I’m really concerned about Paul.

You’re just jumping to the end of the album, dude.

I wouldn’t be concerned about Paul, I’d be concerned for Moby… And also, I did not come up with his name. This was literally the request for the song; you were like “Make it sound like this.” I feel like I should clarify…

What song are you talking about? I don’t even know what you guys are talking about.

No idea, huh…?

We can wait then. Let’s let it be a teaser.

A cliffhanger for those who are thinking, “Gosh, just share the best”, and we’re not going to do it till the end.

Well, I thought we would start with the start, because I’m not Tarantino… I’m more traditional. So I thought, you know… This. Do you guys hear this?

We stole this.

This is different.

Yeah. Well, internally stole it…

We stole it from you.

Oh, okay. I was like…

We stole it from ourselves.

So you put this crowd noise in at the beginning of the album.

He’s like “What? I made that. Are you kidding me?”

Yeah. Who? What?

Yeah, he’s like “What did I –”

I got friends together.

First of all, did you actually make all those noises? Or is that one of those things where you get some wav files and –

No, I just found a bunch of crowds. It’s like three different ones kind of blended together to keep it from – to make them all like roar with approval at the right moment, and then fade out in a way that doesn’t sound too bad.

Yes. And a lot of detail in there too to get that right… Because you’re right, it does naturally perfectly fade. And then about two-ish seconds into the crowd coming up, there’s sort of a swell… Like as if the track began, and the track got good, and everybody got excited about the track coming into play. Like as if you’re live at the DJ.

Okay, I pictured it like the DJ finally walked out on stage. Like, they’re all kind of waiting, they hear it coming, and they’re like “Oh, there they are.”

“Ohhh, it’s that’s that guy…!!”

Yeah, it’s like “Oh, we’re getting started…!” It’s called Party Started, so…

The lights came on… Kind of thing.

Yeah. Like, it’s time. It’s time.

Yeah, for sure.

It’s so on.

And then we stole it from you. So now we just put it in random places, at the top of the Changelog, for instance… You know, we kind of figured that – I don’t know, Adam, do you just think people would naturally be excited, they’d be clapping for us if we came out on stage?

You know, honestly, when these albums come out, I like to reuse a lot of the music we use in them, obviously, in like interstitials… I’m like, I want to just pay homage to what’s been released, so that when people go and listen to it, it sounds familiar, in a way. So I kind of borrowed it temporarily, and now it’s kind of stuck. So I like it. I think we need to have different variations of it at some point. Having a crowd begin kind of feels a bit like truly world class, in my opinion.


But initially, it was just to give a nod to the album out there, and have similarity.


Yeah, exactly. It could be delusions of grandeur, it could be a little bit of that…

No way… Have you done any live shows ever? People would cheer.

I mean, we’ve been on stage and done some stuff, but not the – some clapping. I don’t know if I would say to cheers. We’ve had claps, I don’t think we’ve ever had cheers. But I would love if we could like work in “Adam Stacoviak I love youuuuuu…!” [laughter]

I could totally do that.

Oh, my gosh…

[unintelligible 00:11:20.26] away from the microphone.

We could just imagine it into existence…

Do you have nicknames? Like the Stack?

The Stack, yeah. We could definitely do some nicknames.

Some people call me Stack, some call me Stacks, with an s at the end, plural…

Change it to an X and there’s your DJ name already.

There we go, yeah.

I don’t know if Skrillex would allow it. It’s too close. Stax, Skrillex…

Yeah, he’d [unintelligible 00:11:45.10]

It’s true.

[unintelligible 00:11:48.05] Clapping is like cheering of the hands. That’s on the way…

[00:11:56.18] Yeah, I think we’re on our way… Here’s what I think would happen actually, if we ever did do – because we hint, and we tease, and we talk about a conference, a party, a meet-up, a show, a hangout… We’ve never done any of these things. But every time we’re talking about it behind the scenes, we’re like “Do you think BMC would come and DJ that thing live?” And Adam’s like “Oh, I’m sure.” And I’m like “I’m not sure, but I hope so.”

I’ve already asked him.

Oh yeah. We already got a yes. So that’s where I think we would get our cheer for the first time, is like when you drop the beat initially, live, for Changelog listeners and friends… That’s when I think our claps are going to turn it into cheers for the first time.

That would be an honor.

I would cheer.

Yeah, I would have to join the party and cheer as well.

From peer pressure?

Yeah. Well, pure joy, really.

Pure Joy. That’s good.

Tapped right into my intravenous vein there, it’s just like “Got it.” The joy is in there.

Intravenously. Wow.

The BMC has entered the building… That’s how it goes.

That’s awesome.

But the way this album opens up is like the truly good beat though. I mean, you got the party started, Jerod. You kind of played that. There’s like - what, 20 seconds of cheer, and then… You know, that beat drops.

And then we drop the Bump on a Log.

Sample: [00:13:14.10]

Yeah, I do like these for openers. That bass is like sparse, and [00:13:25.23] if you ever heard the song a long time ago…

Right. That’s my favorite part. What do you call that though, [unintelligible 00:13:31.07]

It’s a synthesizer. It’s a little atonal… I mean, it has pitch, but it’s like not notes necessarily, is it? I don’t know…

This is what I’ve always loved about electronic music, is the layers. Like, you’re just layering on more sounds over time… That’s like the move, isn’t it?

Yeah… You’re supposed to be thinking about how many sounds can a listener really process at once.

I’m gonna stop that so we can talk to each other, but man… Yeah, it just starts simple, and then it’s just more and more and more, and it’s very mathematical… Right? It has to be timed out right, otherwise it’s weird.

I like weird man stuff… I mean, that one isn’t an example of it, but I like instruments with different length patterns kind of overlapping.

Gotcha. That’s some of your taste there… But yeah, is starts out with a banger, Bump on a Log… I think the other one that we potentially considered was Bass is the Place to start it out…

And prior to that you had something entirely different, and I was like “It has to start with a banger.” Remember that?

Yes. You were right.

What were you starting with, do you remember?

I don’t know… Four to the Floor… One of these Halt & Catch Pyre songs maybe?


Of which there are many.

They’re good, but they’re not Bump on a Log.


This is way more amped, I agree. It was a good choice.

Oh, yeah. The way that comes in is like “This is a party.”

Oh, it’s a party.

And you had better dance, or else…

Yeah. Dancing is mandatory.

For sure. I mean, whenever this officially dropped on Spotify, it was listable to the world – I think actually it might have been the Dropbox version of it before it was out there… I played it in my living room for my kids, and they love the dance. We always have dance parties. We literally have dance parties already. And so I’d throw various types of music like this onto the speakers, bump it to 75-80, whatever the number is, basically almost 100… And we’d just rock it out. And these kids literally danced the entire album.

The whole album. I mean, I skipped over some of the middle parts, to get to the – because I was actually thinking like “I’m QA-ing this. How does this sound on real speakers, really loud, as if I’m a listener out there, enjoying it in my living room, on my big banging speakers, and I’m just going at it, basically?”

[00:16:12.18] So I skipped a little bit, but for the whole album, dancing it out, the whole way.

Kids’ reactions is perfect.

They were loving it, they had showers afterwards, and went right to bed, directly.

You wore them out, BMC. You wore them out.

This album will wear out your children. Okay. Cool. That’s high praise. That’s super-high praise.

And the speakers, just to be super-nerdy… The speakers I had them on were Klipsch PRO-250RPW LCRs. Just so you know. So I have dual [unintelligible 00:16:40.27] a 1” titanium dome tweeter, [unintelligible 00:16:46.25] just so you know.

Just off the top of your head, huh?

Just so you know… And probably about 100 Watts, at least, per speaker.

Maybe 150 per speaker. So that’s a decent beat. That’s a decent bump.

Do you know what he’s talking about? Because I know what Klipsch is, but beyond that, I just…

No, no, no… Remember Skullcandy head buds.

Oh, yeah.

I know those…! [laughter] No, I’m kidding.

That’s what this is designed to sound good on…

Yeah, right.

Well, he knows Dr. Klipsch.

He should.

But now that I know that, please listen to all the music and tell me how it bumps, because that’s going to be just the best possible system…

That’s where I test things at, I test things in that living room, or in the theater, with similar speakers. But Dr. Klipsch made famous the Klipsch horn. It’s this old school – back in the ’50s-‘60s invented this furniture-style speaker… And it’s just magnificent to look at as a speaker. And all the tech that Klipsch has today has come from his original – he’s a physicist. He’s all about sound design and whatnot. And he’s done some amazing speakers. So Klipsch is my brand. That’s what I love.

Well, speaking of playing it for your kids, this reminds me of the initial Go Time theme song, which we made years and years ago together. You made most of it… We gave you feedback… And I remember playing it for Ezra when he was two. He’s like almost 10 now. So it had to be eight years ago.

And I remember he was sitting at the kitchen table - I had a video of this, and I remember sending it to you…

Yes, I do remember.

…and he just goes crazy with the head bumps. And then it finally ends and he goes “Will you play that again for me, dad?” or something real cute.

Audio: [00:18:33.28]

And he was just – that Go Time theme song was all he wanted to listen to.

Excellent. That’s awesome.

Yeah. So you rate highly with the youth.

I care about that. I really do.

It sounded sarcastic, but I think it was sincere.

No, no, no. They’ll tell you if something’s terrible.

That’s true.

Or they’ll just like walk away and be like – you know…

I mean, when they’re dancing, it’s all out of pure vibes. There’s no putting on airs.

And if they don’t want to dance, they’re not going to. They’re like “This song isn’t moving me.”

So that is a high praise.

No, it’s always been like – yeah.

Break: [00:19:25.03]

So take us through the Halt & Catches, because this was Halt & Catch Fire inspired music; there’s about four of them. Halt & Catch Pyre… Halt & Do Not Pass Go, Halt & Catch a Cold… Which is awesome. And then my favorite, Halt & Cacciatore, which I had to look up… That’s like a pasta dish, or something?

A pasta dish.

Yeah, Halt & Cacciatore.

Halt & Cacciatore. Not catch a Tory.

Right. It’s all one word. It’s an Italian word. I think Adam was bugging you for some Halt & Catch Fire-inspired stuff, and it must have went on for a while, because you ended up with a lot of tracks.

Yeah, he super-was. You super-were.

Is that the whole story? [laughs] Is there more?

Yeah, if you ever listen to it, it has a really, really specific sound to it.

Yeah, it does.

That’s an ’80s, early ’90s, maybe ’80s kind of vibe…

BMC, what’s your favorite of these four? We’ll play a few seconds from it here.

The first one’s my favorite. Halt & Catch Pyre.


That’s probably the first one we did too, so it’s a little closer to the…

Oh yeah, this was at the top of the Changelog. Still is, isn’t it? Yeah, Adam uses this one as his intro.

Sample: [00:23:59.02]

Yeah, I like that broken up little synth thing that’s barely appearing… There’s a gate on it, so it kind of crackles… If that means anything.

Why is it crackle? Because there’s a gate on it.

Because it will only play when it’s reached a certain volume level… And then everything after that gets cut off immediately. So it’s a fast attack, fast release. And that’s kind of cool. You can make things sound really electronic, like anything – I do this with the cellos and things, or flutes, or whatever… It will just crackle into existence, and then it’ll disappear, because whatever was before it was not quite loud enough.

Gotcha. That’s interesting.

I actually go between those two. I don’t always do that one. I do a couple of the others. So basically, all the Halt & Catch whatevers I’ve used for intros - I dig those ones, of course. What else do I use for intros? I don’t even know the name of them, I just know how they sound.

Yeah, the titles mean nothing…

Yeah, the titles are meaningless, which is why sometimes you’re like “I have to hear it first to even know what you’re talking about” when you say the name.

Like Impetuous Loggers for Change. I can’t even imagine what that sounds like right now…

No… How many titles can I put log in?

Yeah. You’ve done a pretty good job with that. Of the titles though, of the Halt titles, I have to admit, Halt & Do Not Pass Go is just [unintelligible 00:25:26.02]

Oh, yeah? I’m glad.

Yeah. I think it was Tetris Schmetris, which is jumping the gun a little bit, but…

Oh, we can go there.

Oh yeah, Tetris Schmetris. That’s for that documentary you saw about Tetris.

Tetris, the movie.

Tetris, the movie.

Which I got all excited about and then I never watched it. It’s kind of what I do.

It’s nonfiction, right? I mean, it’s a documentary. It’s not like walks from space…

Well, no, it’s a dramatic fiction poetry story…

What do you call those?


Yeah, a dramatization of a true story… Which was interesting, particularly to us, because Adam actually interviewed the guy in which it was dramatizing.

[00:26:05.05] Hank Rogers, yeah. It was really interesting to watch that, considering the conversation, and I guess how old that conversation is in comparison to I guess just the entropy of Tetris, really. You can’t stop Tetris, you know? I mean, the film is evident of that. I won’t ruin it for anybody, but it gets out. It can’t be stopped.

You can’t stop the signal.

Yeah. Licensing couldn’t stop it, governments couldn’t stop it…

And it’s really interesting how the game began. It began as a programmer’s love to program, but then to program a game. And that to me was the beautiful part of it, was the connection between Hank Rogers and the fellow that created it. I think his name is Sergey, if I recall correctly. It was based on programming. Like, what language, how was it written? All that stuff. It was the game too, but then it was also how was the game written to change it to be more playable, and change the rules of the game?

That’s so cool.

It’s pretty wild.

So you watched it… I think it was like on Apple TV Plus, or something… And then you said “This music is good.”

You being Adam. And then he said “BMC… Tetris Schmetris, please.”

I said “Okay.”

Well, I don’t know if it came like – I think I was like… What did I say to you, BMC? I was just like “This album… All the music in this entire film is amazing. Go watch the film, and be inspired”, I think is probably what I said. Some version of that.

Because the movie does have a phenomenal soundtrack. It’s really well done. I think that’s the beauty of what we do in this version of podcasting, Jerod, is that we can sort of be influenced by the world, and share that back with BMC, and say “Please make similarities. Be inspired by x, and let’s bring that into this.” I feel like that’s the ultimate way to remix the world. Everything’s just a remix anyways… And I think it’s less about “Let’s have what they have”, but more like “Man, that’s so cool. Let’s do versions of that to spread that version more into the world.”

Yeah, they’re using techniques or sounds or things that you can evolve on.

For sure.

Remix the world…! Yas.

Yeah, absolutely.

I love a bit of homage. So BMC, did you go to actually watch Tetris, or did you just go listen to some of the music and then say “Tetris Schmetris”?

No, I didn’t watch it… Although I’m watching it in my head overlaid over everything right now, because all you have to say is Tetris, and I’m trying to get lines together…

Well, that’s very –

No, but I listened to the theme song. I played it a lot. That’s what I did.

And then this came out the other end right here.

Sample: [00:28:50.16]

Oh, yeah, you definitely use this one.

See, that just begs for someone to start talking right there, doesn’t it?

Oh, yeah. Okay.

I think so.

It’s good to know stuff like that.

The second one is off by one beat, right? It’s on the up.

Yeah. Very cool.

The second sixteenth note, if you wanna be –

The second sixteenth, Adam,

Yeah, exactly. Sorry about that.

No, I’m not correcting you. [laughter]

I knew it was on the up though, at least.

No, happy you notice it at all.

Still a track.

I believe the theme song uses the same sounds, and definitely the same BPM; that’s like the first thing you can do to make a song sound like another song, is don’t deviate from the BPM. The tempo.

I love that one. I love that one.

Gosh… So good, yeah.

[00:29:49.20] And it’s kind of chill too, so it is begging for someone to talk over the top of it. I mean, some tracks where you’re like “I love this track, but I couldn’t use it as a bed, during a read, because it’s just too much going on.” Like, you’re just gonna be fighting with it. But especially the first part of that is just very melodic and simple, and doesn’t have a lot of craziness to it, and so you can just talk right over the top of it.

It’s good. As BMC would say, “I like it. Maybe you would like it, too.”

I do like it. I’m glad you like it, too.


I was very happy with that track, though. Very, very happy with that track. When I heard it, I was like “You… You…! You…!! You knocked it out of the park. Oh my gosh, this is absolute fire. Give me more, turn it up! Go, go, go!

Go, go, go! Excellent.

Yeah, for real. I’ll pause for a second and just gush for one second, Jerod. Do you mind if I gush just a brief moment?

As long as we can clean up afterwards.

Seriously, working with you is so freakin awesome…! It really is. Just being able to be inspired by something, and share that with you, and then like something cool comes out the other end that is not just mostly good, it’s like really good. To me it’s the absolute magic of some of the stuff we do. Of the secret sauces, you’re like – I close the curtain, and I immediately shake the bottle you’re in, and I pour you out all over the stuff we do, and then it’s just amazing.

Okay, stop gushing. It’s getting weird. [laughter]

Little BMC… It’s like BFF. You’re like the BFF, man. You’re the BMC BFF. So good. So good.

It’s hard to know how to respond to that specifically, but it’s really nice. It’s just very nice. [laughter] I don’t have anything to say about my sauciness per se, but…

Yeah. I mean, the fact that you didn’t just hang up and leave says a lot. It speaks volumes, BMC. You’re still here, after that…

Feeling uncomfortable and need some more space…

You’ve got to illustrate things. You’ve gotta give people a mental picture.

Oh, agreed. That was a picture. Absolutely.

Some pictures you don’t have to give to people though. You could give other pictures. But BMC is still here, so he’s here for it.

Oh, I’m here.

Speaking of making things extra special and sprinkling – what did you say? I don’t even know what you said. I tuned it out once it started getting weird… Gushing –

Just sprinkle you all over.

Sprinkle. Yes.

Well, in fact, I said “shook the bottle and pour you all over.”

Right. It wasn’t a sprinkle. That’s why I stopped myself in –

Didn’t you say draw the blinds first though?

I said close the curtain… [laughter]

Close the curtain in the shower, BMC. He’s taking a shower.

No, no, it’s the magician. It’s the Great Oz. You can’t see what’s happening back here…

It’s my magic potions.

Oh, I thought you were taking a shower and the shampoo was just BMC, and you were spraying it…

No, this is like the Great Oz. Closing the curtain, you can’t see what’s back here… I’ve got magic things happening, and BMC is one of the bottles I grab and I shake, and I pour onto our podcasts.

Okay, so when you said paint a picture, you had painted a different picture in my head than you thought you were painting.

Well, that’s because you’ve got a dirty mind. I can’t help that, okay?

No, I have a clean mind. I thought you were taking a shower. Because you closed the curtain, and then you grabbed the bottle, and you start spraying it, and I figured you’re just lathering up.

Okay, so let’s get into this. Am I more shampoo or conditioner?


Be brutally honest with me.

Brutally honest, I would say you’re a conditioner. Because you go on second and make it all silky smooth, you know?

You’re the three in one. You’re the body wash, you’re the shampoo, and you’re the conditioner.

Let’s get back to the music, okay? Gosh.

Well, I think we’re still talking about the music…

You made me remember that we haven’t spoken to you since State of the ‘log. Weren’t you on the show prior to, or was it after?

Before, I think…

It was before, because people enjoyed that episode last year. Yeah. So we had Jamie Tanna on the show, and he had been a benefactor of your remixes. And so we talked about you with him, and what it felt like to receive a remix. But we haven’t talked to you about what – I mean you took State of the ’log to the next level this year.

That was fun.

It was probably like three times better than usual, and we’re gonna have to have you do it every year probably now.

Because I’m a three in one, yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I want to do that. Let’s do it every time. You’re talking about cutting up people’s messages into music, right?

Yeah, the voicemails. So cool.

That was cool.

That’s like old school, when I was like a little kid and I had a radio and a double tape deck, and I’d just record certain words, and then mash them together on the second tape, and make the Muppets say horrible things, or something…

Right. That was amazing.

It was just fun.

So much so that I’ve been reusing those as transitions sometimes… Especially “Enjoy the drop”, and a few other phrases that people said, that you then put music to.

Well, yeah, and they also said a bunch of perfect stuff.

Yeah, they were really nice. Couldn’t have been happier. That almost makes me want to do more States of the ’logs, just so we can have more voicemails, more remixes… But you know, too much of a good thing can be too much.

Your listeners are cool.

Yeah, they are. Alright, back to Dance Party though… A couple of these tracks have names like they could be on a different album of ours; perhaps our Next Level album, because we have Tetris… And of course, there’s Rainbow Toad Club; that sounds like it’s a video game-inspired track. Ridley Gonna Ridley - I believe that’s based off of Metroid, because Ridley is a character of Metroid, right?

That’s pretty old. That’s a pretty old one for us, I think.

It is.

Like several years old. Same with Sentient Refrigerator.

Oh, yeah.

Because everyone knows what that sounds like.

[laughs] That sounds scary to me. So remind me, BMC, why are some of these tracks on this album and not on Next Level, our video game theme-inspired ones?

You said why they’re not…?

Yeah. Wouldn’t those fit well over there? Do you remember why we didn’t put them in that one?

Because Next Level was largely - although not entirely - trying to use just sounds from like a video game thing; like if it was a Nintendo Castlevania level… Which - you love Castlevania levels. Adam loves Castlevania levels.


I didn’t want to add beats to it necessarily, like modern beats. It was just writing the whole thing using that.

Gotcha. Plus I guess we had Dance Party in mind even when we were making that one, so we probably held these back.

Right. So I kept most of the four to the floor… I kept that for later.

Well, I have to say, my two favorite tracks on this one are the ‘80s, I don’t know… Miami Bites 1984, and Pole Reposition.

Which I think was based off of Pole Position. That was a video game one. But very much sounds – it sounds like it belongs in an ’80s cars chase, or something.

Yeah, I’m confused about that, because it’s a video game, right? But the original song has rockin’ studio guitar, kind of… No wait, what do I mean? Not studio.

Let’s play a little bit of it here…

Sample: [00:37:10.09]

In-house musicians… Oh, I’m on the Highway to the Dangerzone already…

Yeah, there’s a little Highway to the Dangerzone there… Which brings me to the ‘80s. Now, this does feel like a video game, like F0, or some sort of racing game… But even more so like Knight Rider maybe, Knight Rider vibes… I don’t know. David Hasselhoff. It just makes me think of David Hasselhoff. As many things do.

The level of cheese, yeah. I thought there was a guitar solo in this.

Yeah, this track is just awesome. I’ll turn it off now, because I could listen to the whole thing, but…

[00:38:04.05] Yeah. So there was several renditions of that on YouTube, and I’ve found one where – and I think this is the one you actually was inspired by, was one that actually had like multiple instruments, I suppose. Like, the same person playing multiple instruments of the Pole Reposition, or Pole Position.

One of those videos with all the mini screens inside it, where they’re playing every –

Yeah, exactly.

That’s cool.

Yeah, I think it was something like that. So Pole Position was a popular game on Atari, I believe. Was it on Atari?

I thought it was on NES, but…

Let me see.

It was definitely color graphics. I think it was Atari. Like the Joust days…

Yes. Released by Namco in ’82 and licensed to Atari Inc.

That had to have been really advanced then, if it is the same time as Joust, around there… It was way more advanced.

So yeah, the Atari 2600 was the original. And I think it probably got remade onto other things… But yes, you got it right, Atari.

And I was just like “Let me just go back in my repertoire of games from old.” And what were the themes? [unintelligible 00:39:15.22] was one of them… This one, obviously, and several others. Metroid, and Castlevania, and Sonic, and all the things.

Yeah. Donkey Kong Country. A lot of those. Oh, I love doing the Sonic ones though. Those are too much fun. I’ve found the virtual instrument that is the same as the sound card they use for the Genesis, and it’s just too good.

Oh, nice.

Yeah. It’s awesome.

I dug the theme remixes based on those. Those are cool.

Yeah, and those are on our theme songs album. The second half of the theme songs album is all Sonic remixes of the original theme songs. Which is almost more fun to listen to than the originals… Not that they’re not good, they’re just so much fun to listen to that second half.

It’s got nostalgia…

There’s just no end to the goodness. The sauce just keeps coming.

Are you guys interested at all in? What the listeners are listening to?


Well then…

Taylor Swift?

…let sign into our account and see what – oh no, two-step authentication… What happened here? Okay, BMC, stall for us…

Oh, [unintelligible 00:40:39.26] Was that the bonus stage, with like the big sphere, where you had jump over the – it doesn’t matter. But I am stalling…

“But I am stalling…” [laughs]

This sentence proves it as well.

Alright, Adam, stall for us.

I was thinking about “Take on me” by A-ha, as a remix, in the future. It might be my favorite song ever.


Oh, yeah. If that song comes on, I’m happy.

Sure. But that’s the only one?

Well, there’s many more, of course, but that’s a really solid song.

There are songs that just – you’re never sorry to hear it, ever.

Yeah, and that’s one of them. I’ll listen to it by Weezer, I’ll listen to it by the original band, A-ha, of course… There’s been many versions of – there’s an acapella version of it, that’s really… It’s probably 20 years after the original recording. It’s just phenomenal. And the lyrics are not – it’s not just a good song, it’s good lyrics too, in my opinion. They have meaning.

[00:41:46.01] And then of course, back in the MTV days - I grew up in the ’80s-’90s, so I want my MTV, basically. But the original music video - gosh… It was quintessential, of course. It was this real-life photography video mixed with cartoon… So cool. Have you seen it?

No. I’m picturing a different video. Yeah.

What?! Oh my gosh, BMC. We have to steep you in my tastes.

Yeah, please.

I’m gonna keep using cooking metaphors and verbs to describe things…

Oh, I love cooking metaphors for music. You know what I learned to do? Is sautéed tomato paste on its own before you use it in something.

That’s really good. Maybe like spaghetti?

Yeah. Or Indian food, particularly… But it transforms it a bit. Way better. Thank you.

How much do we have to stall here, Jerod?

Oh, we’re still stalling, right…

Oh, you’re still stalling? I thought you were just talking.

I was stalling.

You know what version of that I’ve heard most recently? There’s a kid on Spotify replacing the lyrics to make it about Minecraft, and like practically swallowing the microphone… It’s just so distorted, and that’s immediately what I think of when you say “Take on me”, and that’s probably a shame.

Oh. Well, that’s just sad…

Yeah, I’m sorry…

We’ll have to fix that…

Alright, let’s stop stalling. It’s getting sad. Okay, so on Spotify at least, our most popular song, which maybe this is good timing for you to go there, Adam, is “Paul Oakenfold fights Moby in the alley behind a pan-Asian restaurant.” That’s our top song on Spotify.

I’m just saying…

Over the last month. Not all-time. Their all-time stats - it seemed to be not working for me, so that’s why…

It totally makes sense to me.

Were you suggesting that Moby would win? Because I just don’t know…

Was I suggesting…?

Yeah, at the beginning you were like “Sorry for Paul… Let’s feel sorry for Paul, but I feel like Moby’s a vegan…”

Well, you know how I feel, BMC, because my original title was “Paul Oakenfold beats up Moby.”

Oh, that’s true. Yeah, yeah. I tried to soften it somewhat…

And you changed it to be more politically correct…

Yeah… How do we always end up almost blasting Moby? This happened the last interview, too.

Yeah, that was like a therapy session. “Tell us why you don’t like Moby…”

Well, this is why I think you came up with this, was because of that.

Yeah, this came out our last episode together, because we were talking about how we would give you ridiculous requests, and you would fulfill them. And then shortly thereafter - and we also talked about your disdain for Moby; that’s tongue in cheek…

I feel like I avoid it…

Yeah. And then afterwards, you’re like “Hey, maybe we should put a few new tracks on Dance Party. Maybe we should make some more songs.”

And you took requests. And I just tried to think of the most ridiculous thing I could.

You did, yeah.

Because I was trying to challenge you.

You did very well.

And the other one I requested didn’t actually get made. I can’t remember what it was. It had something to do with Andre 3000… But this one got made. And I just said “I want you to write a song called “Paul Oakenfold beats up Moby in the alley behind a sushi restaurant.” Now, you refused to do that, but you agreed to write one that’s very similar. No, you didn’t refuse. Well, we just renamed it over time.

I changed it to pan-Asian, because it uses a lot of Shaw Brothers Kung Fu samples… Which is not Japanese.

Right. So it was a very nice touch there, a nice detail that I would have missed.

Let’s get it correct.

And you also wanted to say “Paul Oakenfold fights Moby”, versus “Beats up Moby.” Which I’m fine with.

Yeah… I don’t know. I felt bad for Moby, I guess…

Yeah… I think a lot of people pick on Moby.

Right. I don’t need to be – yeah.

Like, once Eminem did it, pretty much – it was open season on Moby. Don’t you think, Adam?

I didn’t know Eminem did that, but I’ve always been a Moby fan, I guess. Not like a deep fan…

I like Moby’s music.

You like that album Play.

Yeah. Agreed. That’s pretty much the one that I know.

That’s good.

But do you remember that Eminem track, when he dissed Moby?

Oh, that’s right. Yeah, I do recall that. And lyrically, he dissed him. Not in an interview. Okay.

Yeah, it was a track.

The way true rappers diss is via tracks, right?

Yeah, exactly. But he didn’t just like call him a dweeb, or something. He’s like “Nobody listens to Moby.” He came out and said that, like “You know no one listens to Moby.”

Was that the same one who was mentioning Britney Spears?

[00:46:11.10] I think so.

That was back when Eminem could do nothing but drop fire every album, every track.

I think it was The Real Slim Shady, is the track…

Quite possibly.

Because that was the one he was like – yeah, I think so.

Anyways. So ever since then, people have been picking on Moby. I do like some of Moby’s music, I don’t have any problem with the guy. I don’t even know him. But I thought it’d be funny that Paul Oakenfold beat him up in a song title. That’s all.

That’s all.

[laughs] Regardless, this is what came out. So from that request, I didn’t give you any more information. I just gave you that.

And you went and came up with this.

Sample: [00:46:47.08]

That’s the Paul Oakenfold bit, for sure.

That definitely has Paul Oakenfold written all over it.

Oh, the Moby bit uses the line from Porcelain… “And this is goodbye…”, which has the little four notes. Five notes…

So that’s a nod to Moby. And then there’s like Kung Fu noises.

Love that stuff.

That’s it.

Yeah, I like that. I like that.

“This is goodbye.”

This is a good song.

In fact, when I first listened to it, I thought “He’s doing the Kung Fu noises because of the song title, but I wonder if he doesn’t even need them, and maybe they’re distracting.” But then I got used to them and I like them now, so I got over it… But I wonder what other people think about that.

See, I like them now, but at first I was like “Huh…”

Yeah, it could be too far. It makes it very –

But it makes me actually visualize a fight.

It just sounds good. It’s punctuation. I don’t know. It’s nice rhythmically… But it doesn’t fit with Changelog in any way… Thematically… I think…

True. And I don’t think we use it for anything… [laughs] Except for this.

Because yeah, I don’t think I would put this into an episode necessarily.

Yeah. Where are you gonna find a matching context for those…?

An outro.

An outro, or something where – maybe a debate episode, you know?

Okay, sure…

Yeah, it definitely was just a fun diversion, and just a… It’s just here for the Dance Party.

I’m all about a fun diversion.

And the kids on Spotify seem to like it, more than other stuff, at least.

Well, I have some good news about this track… Good news that you didn’t even know.

What’s that?

This is brand new information, straight from Spotify’s API… When you search for “Paul Oakenfold”, under tracks, which lists the songs that reference or are attached to Paul Oakenfold, this track comes up as 234. Now, I believe Moby has somehow gamed the algorithm, because it is nowhere in existence in Moby’s search.

It turns out lots of people do listen to Moby.

Is he still doing stuff? You know, I don’t care. Anyway…


It doesn’t matter.

“You know, I don’t care. Don’t answer that.”

Is your shirt a Godfather thing? I can only see the very top, but the font looks Godfathery.

It’s the Changelog. This is the old school Changelog.

It’s nice.

The original.

Have we got a favorite song?

From this album, or overall?

On this whole album.

Well, I shared mine. “Miami bites” and “Pole reposition” are the two. I probably couldn’t pick from those two.

I mean, I think I like – I do like “Bump on a Log.” I’m really boring, but… I like the Orange Night.

The Orange Night’s so deep in the tracklist that I don’t always get to it.

Yeah… [unintelligible 00:50:05.20]

Sample: [00:50:09.07]

Yeah, this one could have been like what Bump on a Log is almost.

Yeah, it could have opened up, too.

Close, yeah.

It takes a little long to get to –

No, I like Bump better.

I do, too.

I don’t know, this has got to be one you can’t really talk over either. Why do you let me keep doing this?

Well, you know, some of them are just good, and we can’t stop you, honestly.

Not all of our music needs to be talked over either.

Yeah, that’s true. Not everything’s a bumper, I realized, but…

I don’t like to resist art, honestly. I like to just let it flow.

I like that about you.

My favorite is Dusk Under a Flaming Moon.

Oh, that’s a good one, too.

That’s the same style as Jerod’s favorite.

It is.

In particular the middle section of it gets really good. You’ve gotta listen to it for a bit to get there though.

This is a longer track. It’s almost three minutes.

I mean, it’s just – you could talk over this one, no problem.

Yeah. This also feels like I’m driving at nighttime.

Yes. It’s an adventure.

Driving at nighttime, and it’s really saturated neon pink and purple in my head.

Yeah, exactly.

Like Tron almost…

Sure. I’m always thinking of that movie Drive. It had that song Night Call in it that was cool.

Drive was a good movie.

Yeah, this track is awesome.

When this guitar solo comes in though, I’m just thinking like you just grabbed the guitar and did this somehow. But the strings made the solo coming up. Sorry.

Did you grab your guitar and make this happen?

Right here.

Oh, those noises?

Yeah. Like, this is an awesome solo. It’s the only reason to listen to the whole song. This is it right here. This right here. This moment.

I don’t know if that was a guitar, honestly. It has that feeling though, doesn’t it?

Yeah, it does, now that I think about it. I haven’t thought about it that hard until now. It does kind of feel like a guitar. Or some crazy…

I think if you did play our live show, you should probably do this one on the guitar…

I can’t play guitar… [laughter]


I mean, a little bit. Sometimes I need like acoustic guitar chords, so…

Don’t ruin our dreams, BMC.

Oh, sorry. No, I’ll learn for you, obviously.

Thank you.

Oh, gosh… That’s the best track of the whole album, in my opinion. That’s it.

It is good. Well, what are you working on now? What should we do next? What’s cookin’? What’s poppin’? What’s breakin’ and poppin’?

Wow… So many questions.

It’s all the same question.

It’s true.

How do I break this down between –

I was stalling.

That was very good. What am I doing? That’s a podcast theme. That’s a podcast theme. That’s the thing I really want to talk about, but cannot.

Oh. That’s a podcast theme.

We’re making podcast themes.

Working on a video game that teaches kids how to play piano. Just really cool.

Nice. That’s cool.

Yeah. Writing a book…

You’re writing a book?

Yeah, which is like the most horrible thing someone can say to you… Because you’re like “No, you’re not. You’re really not.” And then you’re like “I have to act like I’m interested in someone’s book.” But it’s true.

I’m interested that you’re writing a book, not necessarily in the book… Unless you tell me what it’s about and I get interested, but… That’s kind of interesting.

[00:54:16.02] I won’t do that to you, but…

Yeah, don’t do that to us.

Music theory? Beat matching?

No… It’s like Nancy Drew, if everyone was really worried what was wrong with Nancy Drew.

It’s like Nancy Drew on drugs?

Yeah, but not literally. But yeah. I was informed the other day that my main character is completely insane, and I hadn’t actually realized that. I thought she was just dedicated, and…

You though she was just dedicated… Well, that’s interesting. So who’s reading this book of yours and giving you feedback?

You know, people floating about…

“You know…

The Mysterious. This is why we say The Mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder.

Oh, my gosh…

“People floating about.”

Always a surprise with you.

Is it? Well, now I wanna be more surprising, though I don’t know…

Yeah. Well, I mean, the fact that you’re writing a book and you’re just letting people who float about read it is a surprise.

I mean, I know the people…


“Here, read this!”

I’m on street corners, being like “Hold on!!”

“Be surprised.”

You’re like “Is this main character too dedicated, or what do you think?”

Yeah, right. Right.

So it’s a mystery.

It’s a series of mysteries.

Oh, wow.

It has to be. [unintelligible 00:55:24.13]

Well, I know. I’m just trying to tease here.

She goes around solving mysteries, but writes down details that have no bearing on anything, and starts freaking out about spiders, and has a group of first-graders that she uses to do her detective work, and runs screaming through the streets, and lies to everyone, all the time… It’s like the best book I’ve ever heard, now that I say that.

Yeah, it doesn’t sound bad, actually…

What age is Nancy Drew in this book you’re writing?

Wow. Okay.

But none of this actually matters. Like, it does, but there’s an overarching thing.

Oh my gosh, this is actually like a gold mine here.

I kind of want to read this now.

How do we float about in your area?

You are floating about in my area.


Let’s get a manuscript.

Oh, gosh. Are you gonna publish this?

Yeah, actually… I have someone who will read it and consider representing. An agent.

Awesome. What’s the deadline? Uh-oh…

How does this work? Can you write? Do you have to get like the rights to Nancy Drew though, to publish a book about –

Oh, it’s not really Nancy Drew. It’s just – she solves mysteries, and is apparently insane.

You’re just characterizing it.

Yeah, [unintelligible 00:56:41.16]

Oh, I see. Well, that’s actually interesting.

In a way.

“In a way…” [laughs]

From some angle…

He almost gave you a compliment…

What’s interesting about it is that Nancy Drew was a teen in the book series, right?

I guess so, yeah.

And she ultimately grew up and had things happen in her life when she went to college, and… So the story arc of Nancy Drew follows Nancy Drew’s growing up, in a way.

I feel like you’re just reading ChatGPT responses to us at this point.

No, I’m not. I’m very familiar with Nancy Drew. Very familiar.

I’m not, honestly, but –

I just [unintelligible 00:57:16.17] a young female detective, or mystery solver. That’s as far as I went.

Life is full of mystery.

And then she’s 36 now, or 37, as you said. I mean, that to me is like –

It’s not actually Nancy Drew though, Adam. He was just giving us something to hang [unintelligible 00:57:33.12]

I’m just trying to pin back to Nancy. I mean, that’s the hook.

No, please. Anything you know about Nancy Drew… It’d probably just help me [unintelligible 00:57:41.16]

Does this pin back to Nancy?

Well, he said so. It’s like a Nancy Drew.

It’s a series of mysteries. There’s a spider that keeps repeating. You’re like “Why is the spider repeating?”

[laughs] Is this like a real spider, like a monster, is it –

It’s a real spider.

Okay. So it’s plausible fiction.

Yeah. There’s an actual reason for it, but everything appears supernatural. It’s the case of the repeating spider, and then the mystery of the missing missing arm.

[00:58:07.03] Ah. And what’s your intended audience age? Like, is this for adults? It this for young adults? Is this for children?

I swear a lot… A lot. Otherwise kids could read it.

Could you release two editions, one for everybody?

I’ve actually thought about that… Because I would enjoy reading this aloud to some kids.

So why is your protagonist an insane person?

I didn’t know she was insane… She’s me to a very large extent.

Oh, okay. Interesting. I mean, I would definitely – I would read this.

I’m gonna send you one.

No, don’t be sorry.

Don’t apologize yet. Wait till I read it.

Yeah. I had to research social security fraud a lot for this.

Don’t give us hints, man. I want the mystery to be fresh. I don’t want to have any sort of preconceived notions now. I can’t imagine a world in which a repeating spider would have a natural explanation, so I’m very curious.

Even better is this is something that happened to me. It’s not even like – there was a repeating spider and I couldn’t figure out why it was repeating, and then I found out, and it blew my mind.

I don’t understand repeating spider. Like, literally?

Yeah, I’m just being vague…

You kept seeing the same spider?

There’s a dead spider on the second floor of a building, and I flicked it down to the first floor, and then later it was there again… And I was like “Spiders are not supposed to repeat.”

Oh, I see.

Did you think it was maybe a glitch in the Matrix [unintelligible 00:59:33.14]

Right. And she really doesn’t like glitches in the matrix. She wants everything to be orderly, and make sense, or she loses her mind. And in this case, there’s a reason.

Love it.

It could be the mimic.

What’s the mimic?

And the blood from the mimic. That was the premise for Tom Cruise’s movie with Emily Blunt, Live Die Repeat.

Edge of Tomorrow. One of the best science fiction movies ever.

I remember that one being really good, actually.

Definitely up there in my list.

Yeah? What other sci-fi movies do you like?

Oh, gosh… Probably my favorite of all –

Don’t say Tenet.

Don’t say Prime.


No, Prime. Oh, is it Primer? The low-budget time machine –

A low-budget time machine is called Primer, but it’s spelled Primer.

It’s alright.

No, but you can answer the question. We’re just shouting the bad movies…

It’s not even a bad movie.

He’s thinking…

I mean, there’s just a list. I mean, it’s a nonstop list.

Okay. Give us a top five.

Interstellar, Tenet, Ready Player One, Dune… What’s the movie – Blade Runner 2049?

Oh, that was good.

OG Blade Runner, of course…

Five. Are you gonna count that as one, Blade Runner and –

I mean, they’re together, basically…

I’m impressed anybody who could pick up that franchise and make a movie [unintelligible 01:00:58.16]

Yeah, that was a solid film there.

He also did the Dune movies you like. Same director.

Yes. Well, basically, anything Christopher Nolan does, I will watch. That was not the obviously director of that one, but I’ll watch anything from him. And oddly enough - this is not this is not science fiction, this is more horror…

Well, that’s just a different category.

Yeah… I’m just looking at my list.


Well, let’s see. There might be some genre blending.

Let’s hear it. Let’s hear it. Let’s hear it.

This is what they say “They’re all going to laugh at you”, in that funny voice, from the movies… Megan, honestly. It’s a really interesting AI present day horror movie.

I never saw it.

It’s an okay plot.

You know what’s an incredible sci-fi horror movie? Annihilation.

Oh my gosh, yes. The best. The song in there from Hall & Oates in there though? I mean, just stellar. On point.

Yeah. I think it’s Hall & Oates.

There’s a lot of like folk music, like folk guitar, which is really unnerving, for some reason… And the ending music, where - I won’t give anything away, but Natalie Portman –

[01:02:03.15] Oh, my gosh. The music is so good.

…the space melon… That will haunt me until I die. That is incredible.

Yeah. You have to come to my house and watch it, because that’s where it’s the best…

You said theater. Do you have a theater?

Yeah, I have a theater in my house… And you’ll love it. I’m trying to find the song… There’s a song that I’m trying to think of what it is. It’s worth it. It’s when he comes back, and he’s come up the stairs; that song. And she’s painting.

Oh, in the beginning. Yeah. Okay.

Yes. That song.

You know far more about Hall & Oates than I do.

I don’t actually think it’s Hall & Oates. That’s why I’m really curious if I’m wrong, because I don’t think it is… But I’m a big fan of Annihilation. I own it on 4k. If I own it on 4k, I love the movie. That’s just how it works.

Let me name a few sci-fi movies that didn’t make your list, which maybe you’ll have to add them as I say them… Because you left off some pretty good movies, although you can’t name just five. Who can do that…? But for instance, you left off Terminator II, you left off The Matrix, you left off Aliens… You left off the original Planet of the Apes…

These are ones that just go without saying, because they’re just so –

Kind of. But I’ve said them. There’s a few you left off the list… How about this one - Minority Report.

That was an early movie obsession of mine. That was so good.

Yeah, that was a good one. Spielberg.

Oh, gosh… I was so off. Sorry. Crosby, Stills and Nash. Helplessly Hoping. I mean, the harmony… Sorry to interrupt, Jerod. The harmony of those folks singing that track…

They have good harmony.

So good.

What’s the track called?

It’s called Helplessly Hoping. Pull it up on Spotify. Helplessly Hoping. And play it for us.

Okay, give me a second. Stall them, BMC…

Okay… [gargling 01:04:02.22] I tried to make it through that. Gargling solo.

A for effort.

It was so good. Such a good track.

The harmonizing is where it’s at, you’re right.

This is the only real track, like real song in the whole movie. Everything else is made for this movie soundtrack.

It’s like acoustic guitar, which is totally opposite what’s happening on the screen, and it feels good… And then there’s the space melon music, which is terrifying.

Space melon.

Yeah, when Natalie Portman gazes into the melon.

Actually, how about this? We’ll come out of this show with a prescription. The prescription is to go rewatch Annihilation, or pick your favorite scene; the ending scene, when everybody gets enveloped… And make a space melon song for us. Those bass beats…

Those bass notes?

I mean, we’ll have to suck in the audience into this one. That’s what will happen.

How terrifying does your show ever get, though, really?

It might have to get a little scary… [laughter]

Yeah… We’re gonna have to start fear-mongering. You know, “The AI is coming…! It’s gonna envelop all of us!!” I mean, people are kind of afraid right now, honestly.

Oh, are they really?

I think so.

Just in general, or AI?

Software developers. Our livelihoods are potentially at stake. People are getting laid off, they’re getting told that they’re going to be replaced by machines… I mean, I think that if there was a time of fear in the software developer community, this is probably the highest it’s been.

Because there hasn’t really been a reason to be afraid of anything, besides maybe the y2k bug.

But not because of our podcast, though. They’re not necessarily scared because of our shows.

Not yet…

I wasn’t suggesting you were causing the fear… You discuss the fear, you don’t actively terrorize people.

[01:06:11.09] We don’t fear-monger, no. Not yet. Not until we have the soundtrack.


Well, so to go back… I did not mention The Matrix, I’m sorry. That is on my list on 4k. I was going with more modern, I suppose…

No, it’s all good. We’ve put you on the spot. I mean, there’s too many good movies to just name five…

Yeah, gosh. I mean, just so many. So many good movies.

But yeah, The Matrix and Minority Report - I guess they also were kind of coming out when I was coming of age, and so those stick in my head as just very – The Matrix is probably the most influential sci-fi movie I’ve ever seen, where I still think about it…

Ex Machina.

Ex Machina is good. I liked that.

That’s the Annihilation gut, too. Everything he does is disturbing as heck.

Yeah, that is disturbing. I am a fan of The Matrix, obviously, and I’m a big fan of Minority Report. I think that was a movie ahead of its time, honestly.

For sure. You know what was good? Looper. Did you guys see Looper?

Yeah, that’s a good one.

That’s a good one. I mean, maybe not top five, but good.

I mean, if there’s a time travel movie out there, I’m gonna watch it. And that’s not like your typical time travel movie, but there’s time involved. And it’s really interesting.

Yeah. I would say that I kind of get – I get mad at time travel movies, because it’s so hard to do well, and to do right… And there’s always problems… But Looper actually has a pretty good consistency to it.

Yeah, they don’t bother explaining the mechanism too much, which I like.

Yeah, exactly. Like, it’s not the main point. It’s just there.

It’s like a small little story, really.


It just – it also happens to be true that you can –

Which - you kind of have to do that, because the more you make it about the time travel, the more you think about it, the more the concepts break down, you know?

There’s still parts of Tenet I cannot understand, to this day.

Are we sure that’s a good movie?

Which to me is a sign of a bad movie.

[unintelligible 01:08:03.22] that’s a good movie. I might pour you out into the trash.



Oh, no…! My sauce!

Don’t speak against The Tenet. I agree, I watched it, I did not understand it, and then I went through the podcast with our heavy spoilers friend and Adam, and we talked about it… And I came out thinking, “I don’t need to think about that movie ever again.” Like, it doesn’t really –

Really? What a shame, Jerod…

Nah. There’s so many things to think about.

Aren’t there a lot of plot twists that are obvious from the first second of the movie? That’s what I seem to remember.

I’m not here to rag on your movie you like…

It’s too deep to go into. It’s got a lot of layers. I’m not saying it’s the best movie ever, but it’s definitely – when you compare time travel movies of all time travel movies, in my opinion, that movie will go down in history as one of the most difficult to pull off, and a masterpiece, when compared to time travel movies. As a movie and plot, not absolutely the best movie ever… But really well done with time. Like, you can’t deny that from that movie.

I value your opinion and assessment.

Oh, it’s solid. I mean, they did a great job with it.

I’ll watch it again, because if you like it… Yeah.

Even from a shooting standpoint, a cinematography standpoint, it’s super-well done. A lot of detail.

Yeah, he’s a good filmmaker. I keep wanting something to top Inception, but I feel like that was –

Inception was great.

I feel like that movie gets ragged on a bit, but that was my favorite Nolan probably.

I liked it a lot. Well, Memento for me is still his best, but…

Talk about good execution on a good idea… I mean, that was a good idea that’s hard to pull off, and he pulled it off well.

Yeah. Yeah.

That should be too hard to keep track of when you’re watching it, but you could just barely hold the thread…

Yeah, I mean, you can follow it though. They do a good job of just pulling you along.

[01:10:03.20] At the end though there’s no resolution. You’re kind of just like where you began, in a way.

Yeah… There’s a realization.

No, I mean no resolution. There’s a realization, of course. You realize what’s happening. But there’s no resolution to the challenge that he’s dealing with as a character. Like, you’re just gonna keep repeating.

Yeah, exactly.

And you kind of feel bad for him, because it’s perpetual. It’s not going to end.

Spoiler alert, by the way…

Well, I don’t think we spoiled anything, really. We just –

You just spoiled the end.

He’s totally screwed…

You just said there’s no resolution. He’s gonna continue to live on with it.

That doesn’t describe anything though.

If you watch the first 15 minutes, now you know what the problem is, and then you remember what Adam said, and now you know that the solution doesn’t happen.

But you don’t know the details…

I’m gonna drop a spoiler horn, is my point.

Okay, drop a spoiler horn.

I will.

That’s fine with me.

That’s all.

We need a mini spoiler horn, because they’re not always big spoiler horns.

That reminds me, BMC made our spoiler horn for us.

Yeah, you did. You made us seven spoiler horns. [laughter]

Play that spoiler horn, Jerod. Can you play it?

I think I only use one of them…

Like a klaxon, or like a horn?

No, we wanted it to be like a – it’s almost like here comes steamboat… I actually can’t play it right now, because I’m dialed in a different soundboard. But you’ll remember it when you hear it. It kind of sounds like “Here comes a giant freight boat.” You know, it’s gonna hit a bridge.

And there’s like a stutter out.

Is it a fog horn?

Yeah, kind of like a fog horn.

Okay, yes, I remember those. I forgot that was the purpose.

And then there’s stutter-outs, there’s some non-tutter-outs… You just gave us different iterations.

Yeah, that sounds right.

Anyway, you make so much music and sounds in your life you can’t even remember. But you’ve never made a book. Is this your first book?

[laughs] Yes.

So exciting. What inspired you to write a book? Why did you decide to do this?

What the book is actually about is nothing I’ve hinted at, and I just had an idea like 10 years ago, and it’s just been mulling in my head… And if I have an idea that sticks with me at least like three months, I will finally just do it. And this was a little more complicated, so it took 10 years.


It’s just, anything I’m obsessed with, then I’m obsessed with it. I do this all the time. I can’t focus on anything but it when I’m walking around, so it just happens.

Love it. It’s like a repeat spider, you know? You just can’t get rid of it.

It just keeps coming back.

Can’t flick it away. I know.

Alright, BMC… Well, if this episode of our podcast was an airplane in flight - I’m drawing a picture now - how would you as the captain of said airplane, how would you land this plane gracefully?

I don’t know how to fly a plane.


So sorry both of you…

Do you know how to end a conversation? Because I fairly don’t either.

No, I don’t know to –

You just make music and books, and you let us land podcast planes.

Yeah. Let neurotypical people –

We’re typical people?

No, neurotypical people. Let them end conversations.

Oh, I see. I couldn’t hear what you said.

Do your audience identify as autistic, would you say, largely?

Would our audience identify? Well, we can’t identify a collective, you know?

But I’m sure there’s probably autistic people in our audience, as there are probably –

I feel like the people that I know who are programmers…

There’s definitely a higher percentage, I believe, of overlap there. I think [unintelligible 01:13:28.02]

Adam, you’re neurotypical, I think. I don’t know what that means exactly every time… But can you land this podcast plane?

I can. And I will.

I will land it by saying 1, 2, 3, 4. You are now in my trance, and this is the end of the podcast.


I’m just kidding! That was actually a good line… You have lyrics in this one. Drum and Space. I’ll leave with that. Because that to me is probably one of the best recent beats you’ve made, in my opinion.

Yeah, Drum and Space was pretty awesome. Have you seen this one yet, Jerod?

I think so. Does it say 1, 2, 3, 4?

It does say that.

Those are some lyrics, man…

[unintelligible 01:14:10.02]

It took me about four seconds to write.

I love that one. I would use that.

Yeah. I mean, it’s just the best. It’s the best.

So we’re gonna end it with that.

Yeah. This is the new outro track for this track, at least. We’ll end this show with Drum and Space.

There you go.

Okay. Beautiful.

So bye. Thank you, BMC, for being the Mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder, the beats freak in residence, the ultimate beatmaker of all time, the sauce I pour on all my favorite podcasts…

The conditioner that we put on our episodes…

You special three in one you… Oh, my gosh. Shake you up and pour you out.

Thanks, everybody…

Bye, friends.

Bye, friends…


Our transcripts are open source on GitHub. Improvements are welcome. 💚

Player art
  0:00 / 0:00