Changelog & Friends – Episode #47

#define: legendary

with Thomas Eckert, Nick Nisi & Mat Ryer

All Episodes

What happens when you take three #define newbs (Thomas Eckert, Nick Nisi, Mat Ryer) & pit them against the grizzled vet, Adam? Find out on this episode because our award-worthy game of fake definitions is back & this time it’s even more legendary!



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Notes & Links

📝 Edit Notes


1 00:00 Let's play!
2 00:38 Sponsor: Cronitor
3 02:04 Friends & lies
4 05:23 Explaining the game
5 06:45 Round 1: Cryptarithm
6 18:27 Round 2: Graviton
7 25:36 Round 3: Nuclei (OSS)
8 33:29 Round 4: Ductility
9 44:40 Sponsor: 1Password
10 49:31 Round 5: Why doesn't Apple...
11 1:01:58 Sponsor: Neon
12 1:07:15 Round 7: Klein Bottle
13 1:16:24 Round 8: How do you do?
14 1:25:30 Round 9: Chthonic
15 1:34:08 And the winner is...
16 1:36:24 Thonic the Hedge Thong
17 1:39:27 The winner's circle
18 1:42:44 Post-game analysis
19 1:45:57 Adam on Oxide and Friends
20 1:49:23 Bye friends!
21 1:50:55 Coming up next


📝 Edit Transcript


Play the audio to listen along while you enjoy the transcript. 🎧

Hello, and welcome back to pound #define, our 100% original, and in no way copied from Balderdash game show, where you’re rewarded for lying like a skilled politician. My name is Jerod Santo, and we have some great competitors today… And we have Nick Nisi.


Hey, Nick. Welcome to #define.

Happy to be here.

Listeners of the Changelog may remember Nick’s voice as a regular panelist on JS Party, your weekly celebration of JavaScript and the web.

And TypeScript.

No, no, no, no… Don’t start the lying until the definitions fly. We’re also joined by a listener and sometimes guest - I guess recurring guest now - Thomas Eckert. Welcome, Thomas.

Hello. Happy to be here. Excited to join these legends. Legends of the Changelog.

We do have some Changelog legends here, waiting in the wings… Where are they? No, here they are! It’s Mat Ryer. What’s up, Mat?

Hello, everybody. It’s nice to be here.

How do you like to be described as a legend?

It’s alright, actually… It’s just the first time it’s happened.

You’ll take it?

Just let it sink in. Let me think. Yeah, it feels pretty good. Yeah. It’s very nice.

You’ll take it. Alright. Speaking of the legend, it’s my partner in crime, Adam Stacoviak. What’s up, dude?

What’s up? I’m here. I’m back.

I feel like you’re well positioned, because we played this game a few times… This is our third iteration of #define. However, we have no returning guests. We got rid of Taylor Troesh. He’s too good. Lars, way too serious. Amal… Too much.

Too much. [laughs]

And we’ve got these guys. So I think you have an upper hand, because you have experience and they do not.

If I don’t win, there’s something wrong. Okay?

With you.

With me, yeah.


That was implied, with me. But yes, thank you for being specific.

Adam, I just noticed the lava lamp behind you.

Oh, yeah.

I know you’re into homeland. Is that – home lab, not homeland. Is that [unintelligible 00:04:07.18] key generator?

It’s my – yeah, what do you call those things…?

Cloudflare Worker? [laughs]

No, they have a – Nick is referring to this wall they have in the Cloudflare office, and they use it, I believe – what do they use it for?

To generate random numbers.

A random generator kind of thing? Like a password generator?

Oh, really?


Yeah, because it’s never the same. That’d be cool if I did, but I don’t. So… I’m sorry, Nick. It’s just for looks.


It technically can be the same, right? It’s just chance, but… It’s probably not going to be the same, but it could just be exactly the same all day, and then all it’s kicking out is two. And you’re like “Come on, wall… We need more different random numbers, not just two…!” And you get angry with it. But then you’re relaxed by just watching it, because it’s lava lamps, so it chills you out.

And then it reminds you it’s a pseudo random number generator. They’re just pseudo random. So you get what you pay for, I guess.

No, but that one is real random, I think.

It could never be the same again.

It can be. It’s random.

Maybe in a million years. Could it be the same in a million years?

It could be the same in one second, technically… It’s just unlikely.

Yeah, that’s true.

Well, this conversation will never be the same again, either… So let’s get to the game. Here’s how it works. This is the game of fake definitions. You all are tasked with basically lying to each other, pretending…

I like it.

…pseudo random definition generators, that you know the definition to these obscure, STEM jargon. I have 10 rounds of play. I will say the word, send it to you all, spell it out loud for our listener, and you will then write a definition for the word. I also have, of course, the correct definition… I will mix them together, read them out, and you will try to guess which is the correct definition.

[00:05:59.15] If you know the definition to start, and you submit to me the correct definition, you automatically get three points, which is the most points you can score for a single action… And you sit that round out. So you know, go have a drink of coffee, or something. If you don’t get it right right away, I will gather them and read them during the reading time. If you guess the right one then, you get two points. And if you trick somebody else to guess your definition, you get one point. So for each person who selects yours, you get a point. And we get to 15 points first wins, or 10 rounds. That’s how it goes. I’m sure that was convoluted as an explanation, because I was confusing myself as I went… But as the game starts, it will become immediately obvious how this works. So let’s just get into it, and start with round one.

So the word for round one: cryptarythm. I will submit that to the chat… Please send me your fake definitions now. Okay, Nick has already submitted. So it’s not based on speed, Nick, but I do appreciate that. I have Mat’s definition… Adam is historically the slowest submitter…

He’s a deep thinker.

I have Thomas’s… So soon as Adam is done, we will be ready.

I’m just trying to figure out how to spell rhythm.

It’s in the thing.

No, no. I mean the word rhythm.

That’s too tough.

It is a tough word to spell. I always get confused, and I always have to google it.

Do not google. There’s no googling.


Alright, I’m gonna send you an incorrect version of rhythm, basically.

You can’t google, you can’t DuckDuckGo, you cannot Ask Jeeves… Nor can you ask any sort of GPTs.

But you can just type in the word in Slack, and see if it’s got an underline on it.

That’s one way to find out.

I will allow spellcheck. Good point, Mat.

But you can hack that maybe through like Grammarly, or something that’s using an LLM to –

[unintelligible 00:08:06.14]

I guess if you hack #define by using Grammarly, then I’ll just submit to you unless you win the game.

Also, it’s interesting you say ‘pound’, because we don’t say pound for that symbol. You’re talking about the hash symbol.

I’m not. I’m talking about the pound sign.

Right. Which – it’s an octothorp, right? It’s two lines… I think that’s its technical name, is an octothorpe.

Octothorpe Define, yeah.

Do you guys call it that because it looks like hashbrowns?

We don’t really havehash browns though; they’re from the US…

Well, what’s wrong with you?

They have beans. They just have beans and they have toast. That’s it.

Just beans and toast?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, you should try hashbrowns are really good. [laughter]

Did you try beans on toast when you were in London, Nick?

I sure didn’t. They gave it to me, and I set that aside.

They gave it to you and you didn’t eat?

You gave it back… You’re like “No, thank you…”

Some of the best food I had in London was at the local McDonald’s.

That’s so American…

It was at the airport lounge…

No, that’s the place to try it, if you’re gonna go… If you’re gonna go for it. You want to have it done properly. You want to get yourself to terminal three. Nick, when you say “Someone gave it to me”, surely in context of a restaurant or something… Like, they didn’t just give it to you in the airport.

They’re just discarding it. They figured “Here, you have it.”

Yeah… Going through security, they just hand it to you…

Yeah. It’s just someone else’s beans on toast that they weren’t allowed through. Actually, that’s not a bad idea.

Well, the thing is, there’s only one beans on toast in the entire country… But no one actually likes it, but you’ve got to pretend like you like it, so you kind of just keep passing it on… And it’s been hot-potatoing around between people for decades.

That’s how sourdough started.

Yeah, it’s the same principle. I love that it’s one beans on toast. Like, the beans on toast is a singular. And there’s one of them. I love that.

[00:09:51.22] Yeah. Well, the beans are plural, but the toast is singular. Yes. Alright, I now have all definitions… A quick disclaimer, I do my darndest to read these as straight as possible… In fact, I close my video so I can’t see your faces, and I just read, as if I’m the only one in the room. Having said that, it’s still really hard, because some of these get to be a little bit zany… Thankfully, Taylor Troesh is not here, because he’s trolling pretty much every round. And so… Maybe Mat will troll, I don’t know. But there’s my disclaimer. If I laugh, it’s not because it’s not the right definition. It’s because I think something’s funny.

Yeah. But you also find quite weird things funny. I listened to an episode of this last time and you were in hysterics for 10 minutes… And then when you read it out, it was just a sentence.

The first episode I almost broke it. Yeah. But I did a much better job in the second episode. So if you want to go back and listen, skip around one of episode one… In which I darn near break the show. Okay, let’s see if I break the show this time.

Cryptarythm is an algorithm for generating cryptographic signatures. Or the subtle vibrations that occur in underground burial sites due to the crypt settling. Or the rhythm, also known as cryptorhythmic sequencing of adding and subtracting numbers in cryptographic algorithms. Or a puzzle where you are given an arithmetical expression where the digits have been replaced by letters. Or finally, a drumbeat used as a password, usually tapped out on a keypad or keyboard.

There you have it, five definitions for cryptarythm. One of those is the correct definition. Nick, you’re up first. Which one do you think it is?

How do I answer?

You can answer by the number, you can answer by the one saying generally this, and I will confirm with you. You can just kind of talk about it. It’s fine, we’ll figure it out. Okay.

I’m gonna say the one – the puzzle, where you’re…

A puzzle where you’re given arithmetical expressions, where the digits have been replaced by letters?

Alright. That’s number four. I gave that to Nick, and we go to Thomas.

Yeah, so I’ll think about these… You’ve got to algorithm-like ones. Those are both interesting, attractive… I’m also drawn to the puzzle one. I think it’s interesting, this idea – I looked at cryptarythm and I thought crypto, right? You know, cryptography. But now that I read this one about [unintelligible 00:12:22.20]

Vibrations, yes.

Vibrations. That makes a lot of sense. Like, maybe I’m actually – you know how a helicopter is actually heli copter…

Oh, school us.

…where you actually [unintelligible 00:12:35.21] word is different… You don’t know that?

No. Tell me more.

Oh. We say helicopter, right?


Matt, do you say that?

I do. All the time. I’m always saying it.

No, no, no. They say whirly birds…

Oh, you guys have whirly birds.

Whirly birds…

Yeah, that’s the proper one.

Whirly birds, and… Yeah, no. That’s how they imported the beans.

Through a whirly bird, of course.

We say it like helicopter, but the actual origin of the word would split. So pter is the wing… It’s Greek. It’s the same thing where you get like pterodactyl.

It’s all Greek to me.

I know. So you wouldn’t say –

So what’s helicop mean?

Helico-pter. If you were to split where the words –

Is he spitting on me?

I feel like he’s just spitting on us.

I’m spitting knowledge.


You know? But maybe it’s like that, where you need to split the word in a different place. You know, crypt.

You’re going for the one that says “Vibrations occur in an underground burial sites due to the crypt settling.”

Yeah, but I’m still drawn to the puzzle one. I think I’ll go with the puzzle one…

Alright. He’s piling on…

Piling on.

Now, let me remind you of the spread. The spread is wherein you don’t all pick the same answer, because if nobody gets the correct answer, I, your humble moderator, sometimes not so humble moderator, will score three points. And if I reach 15 before anybody else, you’ll never hear the end of it. Okay, so he’s gonna pile on with Nick on the puzzle. Puzzling… Adam, what do you think?

Can I get a readback, please?

[00:14:11.16] Of which ones?

All of them. [laughter]

I will give you a quick summary of each, okay?

Please, and thank you.

Number one was the algorithm for generating cryptographic signatures. Number two was the subtle vibrations that Thomas was talking about.

Okay, yes.

Underground burial sites. Number three was the rhythm of adding and subtracting numbers in cryptographic algorithms. Number four was the puzzle. And number five was the drumbeat used as a password.

The last two - well, middle and last two are kind of STEM-related… So I’ve gotta go in the STEM. Plus the pile-on is making me feel like maybe I’m not smart here, and they’re smart, so I’m gonna just do what sheep do and follow, so I’m gonna be a sheep today. But I don’t know, that last one… Read it again, please. Let’s see how – can you hear me the exact version of it, so I can hear…?

Number five - a drumbeat used as a password, usually tapped out on a keypad or keyboard.

Think about that, like [unintelligible 00:15:08.05]

Oh, yeah…

That’s kind of a password.

On each key.

It’s maybe a cryptarythm.

Yeah, maybe it predates…

It’s a rhythm that’s crypt.


It’s the rhythm of you getting scammed…

Well, thanks, Nick.

Oh, man…

You’re putting it out there. Okay, puzzle. I’m piling on, Jerod.

You’re piling on puzzle.

It’s very STEM. It’s very STEM.

This is concerning… Okay. I’m winding up a win here, perhaps, or a loss. We’ll see. Mat, you are the last to choose. So far, three puzzlers. What are you thinking?

I’m still trying to get over that helicopter news. That bombshell has just really shaken me, to be honest… [laughter] I can’t believe you’re supposed to say it like that…

You don’t need to worry about that.

That was a psychological operation.

You’re not supposed to say it like that.

Do you break it down to say Whirlybi-rd?


Oh yeah, that’s it.

And the Greek?

Yeah, the Greek, I don’t know… I was gonna learn Greek, but it’s got too much maths in it. I’m not very good at maths. I shouldn’t have to calculate pi halfway through a word… You know what I mean? We won’t be playing that.

[unintelligible 00:16:10.27]

The spelling of cryptarythm I think tells us it’s not the rhythm one. And also, when I heard the real definition of this, I remembered that I did know this. So I was a little bit disappointed with myself. But I’m pretty confident that it is the puzzle. So I’m gonna pile on, baby…! Pile on!

The pile!

Is there a theme tune for if everyone piles on?

We need a pile-on theme.

Can you write one real quick?


Alright. Pile-on theme tune.


Where has our individuality gone…? We’re all saying the same thing… It’s a pile-on… It’s a pile-on…!


It’s a pile-on. And in post, as we speak, Breakmaster Cylinder is remixing that. In the moment. So there’s gonna be some beeps and boops and some blops.

It’ll come out sounding better, probably. A little better.

Yeah, he’s gonna autotune that thing, so it’ll be good.

I already had autotune on, in my voice.

He’s gonna meta-tune it.

Oh, did you? You tuned it yourself as you went.

By the way, Adam, I had a thought earlier… You wanted Jerod to repeat all the answers. You can just use the back 10 seconds on your phone to go back 10 seconds and listen to that bit again.

Yeah. I was trying that, but it didn’t work.

The hard part’s catching up, you know?

You need the new Windows PC, where it records your entire life, so you can just go back.

Oh, yeah. Recall. Was it Recall?

Yeah, Recall.

Well, I don’t know if there’s gonna be a recall on that…

There might be a recall on Recall…

[00:17:58.02] Total recall. [laughter] Even better. Alright, how do we land this helicopter? We say the correct answer was… The puzzle! You all got it!

Pile-on vindicated…!

So two points for Mat, two points for Adam, two points for Thomas, two points for Nick, zero for me… But that’s okay.

It’s a tie.

And after round one, it is a four-way tie for first place. Also, circumstantially, last place. So don’t forget that. You’re all tied for last. We move now to round two, where our word is graviton. The word for round two is graviton. I have Thomas’s definition…

How do we know it’s not gravy-ton? Like, loads of gravy.

Do you guys have gravy over there?

Yeah, but… Is it different? It’s probably different, ain’t it?

It’s just the juice around the beans… So you know how beans come in a liquid? They just drain that off. That’s what they call gravy.

I don’t even really eat beans on toast very often, Thomas… I usually just have toast on the beans. That’s my favorite.

Toast under beans. That’s a really good idea.

It’s lovely.

It sits different on the palate. And that’s a little bit more – I mean, you see, that goes back into questions of class in England, as to who had toast under beans and who had beans on the toast.

That’s it. Yeah.

Which class are you in, Mat?

You know Downton Abbey? You know where all the servants live, downstairs?

Yeah, I’d be working for them.

Oh, you’d be working for the servants.

Yeah, in the UK, where I sit.

You’re the scum the scrape off the scum.

Yeah, exactly. Scum of the scum. It’s like crème de la crème, but the opposite. But I’m proud of it. Working class background, and all that, you know…

And you’re a legend around these parts… So what does that make us, you know?

[laughs] I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess…

Just people.

No, I like you lot. I’ll just caveat it with - if any scandals break with these people, I’d like to distance myself now. But assuming that doesn’t happen…

I have an ongoing scandal hidden very much in… Is it a scandal if its hidden?

No. Well…

It’s actually a microscandal. It’s between like three or four people… One of them has a newspaper that just distributes it to like three people, and that’s it. And it’s in there, headlined on the front page.

Oh, wow.

So two people know what I’ve done. Allegedly.

What area is it in? Is it like a crime?

It’s in the zip code? It’s like –

Yeah, geographically.

…on the street.

What lat-long? What’s your lat-long of this incident? Narrow it down a bit.

I can’t tell you. That’s my information? I’m in the US of A, you know that… Down here in Texas!

[laughs] You can’t do anything illegal in Texas, can you?

No, everything’s –

There’s no laws.

Oh, it’s all in the dossier…

If you do something illegal, don’t they just take you Dan-Tan?

Dan-Ttan. Yeah, I’m taking you Dan-Tan.


Oh…! Gravy-Tan! Alright, well, we have an unprecedented occurrence here… I’ve never been through this. I don’t have it in my rulebook even, how to handle this circumstance. But of the definitions - I now have all four of your definitions. Three of them were the correct definition, and one person made one up. So I guess we could just – [laughter] We could all go around and guess who might not know the definition. Or –

Yeah, let’s change the rules for this one answer.

Okay. So we will guess now who you think had to make up the definition and didn’t actually know…

Oh, yes.

This might turn into some sort of a class war.

We could also still pick which exact definition is the official one. That’s still a game, I guess.

Well, yeah, can we get what the fake definition was before we try to place it on someone?

[unintelligible 00:21:35.27] fair play.

That’s true.

Let’s keep it fair. Let’s keep it 100% fair. So Thomas goes first. Thomas, who do you think made up a definition in this round?


This game is taking [unintelligible 00:21:51.18]

No, it doesn’t. It’s not fair to assume that the person didn’t know what the actual answer was, but may have been playing that strategy, where –

Right, the metagame. Most likely they were, and it just backfired horrendously. Or not. Because if you guess their name, then they get a point for tricking you.

[00:22:10.27] They get a point for tricking me… When I choose…


Because you think they lied, and –

[unintelligible 00:22:14.23] yourself, at which point the points cancel out.

Unless it’s myself…

Yes. You get about a 33% chance of getting it right. Well, I guess maybe a 66. What is the math on that one…?

It depends on whether or not I’m the person who made it up.

Right. But the person whose name gets guessed gets a point. Don’t think about it too hard… Flip a coin and pick a name.

I’m thinking that I could see Mat making something up.

Alright, so Thomas picks Mat. Adam, your turn. Who do you think it was?

Who did what?

Who made a fake definition and submitted it to me.

I think you did. I think you began the game of fakeness.

I did not.

You did. I believe you did. This is the time that you would slip it in there. This is the one time, the only time.

[laughs] So you think that I’m trying to get a zero here?

So Adam, you think the official answer here is wrong?

I don’t understand your logic, but you’ve done it, okay? I’m sticking to my guns. I’m picking Jerod.

Okay, so Adam thinks Jerod. Thomas said it was Mat. Adam thought it was me. Mat, who do you think it is?

Well, I think it’s Adam Stacks. I think it’s Adam.

You think Adam stacked the deck against you?

And I won’t caveat it with all the politeness. You know what I think.

Alright, so one vote for Mat, Jerod and Adam… And now Nick - who do you think it was?

Wait, how do I get the points here?

You have to name the person that submitted a fake definition.

The only way to win is to not play… [laughter]

No, I’m gonna win, because I’m gonna say it was me.

Oh…! It was Nick!

There ya go…

And so Nick wins the round…

By getting it wrong.

…in some sort of crazy turn of events. He gets a point - or two points for getting it correct. Unfortunately, everybody else scored three points, because Mat, Adam and Thomas all got the correct definition. A hypothetical elementary particle that mediates the force of gravitation in the framework of quantum field theory. Nobody said it that nicely. That’s the correct thing… But they all got pretty close, though. Nick submitted “A database as a service solution for enterprise infrastructure solutions.” So a lot of solutions in that…

Well, you’ve got Fermyon. They should have Graviton.

In my defense, I had a greater chance of saying it was a JavaScript framework and getting it right than you all did guessing me.

Yeah, that’s true. [laughs]

The hypothtical JavaScript framework.


And I was trying to throw everybody off by choosing Jerod… I was like “Well, you know, nobody expects this…”

Yeah, that’s why I went for you.

I was hoping that nobody would say Nick, and I would get three points for the miss, but… He named himself; he outed himself, and to much success, he got two points there.

I totally knew what it was… I was trying to trick all of you.

Oh, you’re playing the meta game.

Yeah, he’s playing the meta game.

Smart. It backfired horrendously, but you still scored two points. Everybody else scored three. So after round two, we have Mat, Adam and Thomas tied in first, with five. Nick in dead last with four. And I still have zero, but it doesn’t count as dead last, because I’m just the moderator, people. I’m not actually playing the game.

Wait, wait, wait… A question. Is the point of the game to try and trick everyone else, but then know the right answer and guess it?


Or is it to guess it first?

How can you do both of those?

That can be the best if you can get a fake definition that is so good that everyone else –

That’s what you’re trying to do.

You have to get the ultimate pile-on, and then not pile on yourself. That’s how you get the most points.

A JavaScript framework. Just say that for the rest of them, and…


They all [unintelligible 00:25:33.03] JavaScript frameworks.

Well, you’ll have a good opportunity now. We move to round three. This is a different round. We call this round “Namespace conflict.” And this one, I’ve gone out to the GitHub, and I have found an open source project. I will give you all the name of the open source project. Your job is to write the tagline or the description of said open source project.

That’s great.

And the title of this project is “Nuclei.” Please submit to me your fake taglines now.

[00:26:10.06] And this is not nucleus, from –

Don’t say it… Don’t say it…

Silicon Valley. [laughter]

I would never – I would absolutely never. Now, if one of you happens to know what Nuclei is, then you just tell me that and you’ll still get those three points. Thomas first to submit… I have Mat’s. So far, nobody has known it.

I’m not sure that’s a good thing to say, Jerod…

Let’s see if Nick can get in before Adam does, and retain Adam’s streak of last submitter.

Last off the field.

And I have Nick’s.

Ah. So close. I added one comma, and a space, and then two more dots, and a plus sign.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I added a last-minute edit to be more clear. So if you see or hear him delay or add a plus in the definitions, that’s just me, to be clear.

Okay. I now have all four definitions, or descriptions I should say, for the very real open source project on GitHub called Nuclei. But what is Nuclei? Number one, it’s believed to be the real world version of nucleus, the copied middle out compression framework from HBO’s Silicon Valley.


How dare you. Number two, a fast and customizable vulnerability scanner based on simple YAML-based DSL. Number three, an abstraction atop all popular frontend testing technologies. Run everything from one place. Number four, a blazingly fast JavaScript framework written in Rust, with AI superpowers. And number five, “Nuclei: Get to the center of your issues.”


There you have five potential descriptions of a very real open source project called Nuclei… But which is the real one? We start now with Adam.

Can you repeat a few for me, please?

A few of them, just at random?

Use the lava lamp to pick which one, Adam.

He doesn’t care which ones he hears back. He just wants to hear a few. Were you listening the first time?

I’d love to hear two and three, please. Two and three.

Two and three, okay. Two is a fast and customizable vulnerability scanner based on simple YAML-based DSL.

Okay. I meant three and four, sorry.

Three is an abstraction on top all popular frontend testing technologies. Run everything from one place. And four is a blazingly fast JS framework written in Rust, with AI superpowers.

What was number one again?

HBO’s Silicon Valley…

What about number five? I’m just kidding. I’ll take number three, please.

Alright, number three is the abstraction.

Abstraction. Read that one again, one more time?

An abstraction atop all popular frontend testing technologies. Run everything in one place.

That’s the one.

That’s the one?

Alright. That’s Adam’s. We go now to Mat.

Hmm… Can you read number five again? I’m not trolling. I think that’s the one I’m gonna –

You’re not trolling?

Number five, it says “Get to the center of your issues.”

Is it ‘git’ though?

Not it’s ‘get’.

Yeah. I mean, that’s good. That’s a good – it could be also quite a good fake. This would be a good fake that one of these young lads would come up with, I reckon, to throw me off a scent.

Yeah. It’s hard to say.

Yeah. And number two again, just one more time, Jerod?

Number two was the fast and customizable vulnerability scanner based on a simple YAML DSL.

Yeah. It was the addition of the YAML DSL… Like, that’s a brag… That’s somehow –

It’s a brag? They’re trying too hard?

I’m gonna go number five, I think. And I deserve to lose points to someone if they’ve –

Alright, Mat votes for number five, “Get to the center of your issues.” Nick, what do you think?

I think – what was number one again? [laughter]

You know, you can write things down…

I refuse to read number one again. You know what it is, and you’re just trolling me.

[00:30:13.18] Your favorite show, right?


I’m sorry, but can you – I think I have number two… Can you repeat number three, please?

An abstraction atop all popular frontend testing technologies. Run everything from one place. Adam selected that one, in case you want to have Mat singing the pile-on song again…

So he selected three, and five…

Mat’s on five, Adam’s on three…

It’s number on, Nick…

Who’s on third…?

I’ll take two.

Two. You’re taking the vulnerability scanner, correct?

Okay. Nick has that one. We go now to Thomas.

Alright. Can you read…

Yes, I can.

Oh, that’s wonderful.


Alright. As I’ve heard this, I’m thinking, “Get to the center of your issues.” It’s nice, it’s clean… It could be fake, but… It also leaves a lot of interpretation as to what the project could actually do. Getting to the center of your issues - it could be a therapy program, it could be a lot.

So I’m thinking I’ll go with that one. Center of your issues. We’ll pile onto that one a little bit.

Alright. A little bit of a pile-on. We’ve only got two on there, Thomas and Mat. So let’s start right there. Both Mat and Thomas thought that a Nuclei might be “Get to the center of your issues.” A pretty good tagline, written by one Nick Nisi. So that is Nick’s.

So good.

Very good, Nick.

Because it’s Nucle-i. Because you’re saying “i” as well, so it’s like looking out…

I thought it was great. Yeah. Very good one.

So good. It deserves – how many points does it get?

So Nick scores two points for tricking two of you…

Good job, Nick.

Adam, however, thought that a nuclei was the abstraction atop of all popular frontend testing technologies. That was written by Mat. So Mat gets a point there.

Nice one.

And Nick thought it was a customizable vulnerability scanner based on a simple YAML-based DSL. And that is exactly what Nuclei is.

Really? Alright.

So Nick got it right. He gets two more points for the correct answer, and really takes a big lead after around three.

I was really queuing in on that YAML keyword, too. That’s really specific, or it’s trying to trick me.

And I obviously wrote about the copy [unintelligible 00:32:30.22]

And we all know who wrote the Silicon Valley one.

My problem though was that I worded that incorrectly. It was not like a description. It was not believable.


I think it was too long for the GitHub tagline area, too.

Yeah, that’s the problem. As I read that back, I’m like, my strategy for what I wrote was wrong.

The other problem is it had Silicon Valley in it, so… Yeah. You basically traded points for a few lols.

If I could have just said like “Fan art based on Silicon Valley” that would have been good, right? Just like simple.

Okay, that might have been believable.

That might have actually gotten you guys, you know?

We’re gonna get better at this, aren’t we, as we go?

Yeah. Well, that’s the strategy… It’s like believability, and STEM. Because sometimes there’s definitions out there that are like not STEM.

That’s true. After three rounds, Nick moves from dead last to dead first. He has seven points. Mat is in second place with six, and Thomas and Adam are tied with five AP. So it’s a tight game. We move now to round four, where the word is ductility. Please submit your definitions now.

Adam, can I have a random number from your lava lamp, please?

Thank you. Yup. I’ll just write it down. Number six.

Mat is in. Thomas is in.

We’ve got the same exact thing.

Could have…

You did in the graviton round…

[00:33:57.07] Thomas, you keep having to go with beans on toast. What’s the sort of local food from where you are that’s popular?

You know, where I am - I’m just outside of DC. And so there’s such a –

The comics? The comicbooks?

Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no… And of course, the other coast do have Marvel…

The two big rivals, aren’t they?

The two big rivals. I would say that DC –

Is that where Batman lives?

That is where Batman lives, and –

A lot of kryptonite…

…he does take care of a lot of… Well, there’s a lot of kryptonite, and that is the main kind of industry in the area, is kryptonite mining. So very, you know…

But not exactly a cuisine. I mean, we’re not talking –

No, no, no, no. We’re getting there. I mean, some people love large vats of acid. Some people find it transformative. Some people find it drives them crazy. You know, there’s not a real central DC cuisine I can think of, but I will say, I spent a long time in Rochester, New York. It’s where I went to grad school. And they have something called a garbage plate.

Ooh, that sounds delicious.

Do you know what a garbage plate is?

No, but it sounds yummy.

I could take a few guesses…

Yeah. Well, it’s kind of a loose idea about food… It is a plate that includes hamburger, you’ve got some hotdog on there, chopped up usually, some macaroni salad, sometimes beans… Really just anything that you might –

Is there any toast?

You know what, with a little bit of ingenuity, you could add some toast to that.

So if you worked hard, you could turn garbage into beans on toast, is what we’re saying here.

Exactly. There is a possible transmutation from garbage to beans on toast. Yes. And so that’s where a lot of my perspective comes from.

Is it garbage plate like leftovers, and it’s just a mix of everything…?

It’s kind of like everything that you could get at a diner, or a barbecue joint… Well, not like a Southern barbecue joint, but like, you know…

A Northern one.

Maybe at a family barbecue, yeah.

I just thought it was the result of a successful night of dumpster diving. But…

It can be. Depending on your palate, and how good you are at digesting food…

Right. Alright, we have all four definitions - five, including the real one - for ductility. Number one, the act of throwing something or someone out of a window. Number two, helpful objects formed with duct tape. Number three, a measure of how solvable a problem is using duct tape. Covering a small hole has high ductility. Number four, a fast, utility-first duck-typing library. And number five, a temporary tool to quickly fix an issue, contraction of duct tape and utility. So there’s your five definitions. We start with Mat this round. What do you think is the right definition?

That last one sounds properly like real… But is that a double bluff? Or just a normal bluff? I could be just a one bluff.

It could be a triple bluff.

Could it?

Actually, a double bluff would be worth choosing.

If it’s even, does it go back to – which one… If it’s odd, it goes back to what it was… I can’t remember.

I think you know the answer to this.

What’s like a 15th bluff?

It just goes odd/even, yeah.

Okay. I think the one about measuring how easy you could fix something with duct tape, measuring the severity of a problem. I like that. But… Yeah.

Okay. That’s number three, a measure of how solvable a problem is using duct tape. That would be the ductility.

It’s either that or the last one, I would say. So I will go for three.

Alright, he’s going for three. Nick.

Three was my guest, too. But to be different, I’m gonna go with five.

Do you know what number five is, Nick, or are you just following the leader?

That was the one about ductyping, right?

No, that was four.

Can you repeat number five? [laughter]

I thought you might have moved a little quick on that… Number five was a temporary tool to quickly fix an issue. A contraction of duct tape and utility. Ductility.

Oh. Okay. I’m gonna stick with five.

Oh, you’re gonna stick with that one?


Oh. It’s like, something was in there, that like –

Alright, that’s Nick’s. He’s got five. And Thomas.

[00:38:17.09] Yes, I will pile on with Nick… Even though he didn’t know which one he was picking. Now he does, and I agree with him. That temporary tool - that sounds right.

You’re being very ductile there, Thomas.

Last up, Adam. What are you thinking? We have a pile-on beginning, and we also have Mat over there on the solvable problem using duct tape –

Not feeling good over here on this little island, I’ll tell you that…

Not feeling good…

I’m gonna give you a chance here, Jerod, to get some points.

You’re gonna pile?

We’re gonna split it. I’m gonna go with Mat.

You’re gonna go with Mat.

Yeah. I think it’s a measure.

Okay, he thinks it’s a measure.

Ductility is definitely a measure.

Alright… So we don’t need the pile-on song.

It’s hard to remember the definitions and stuff, because I think Jerod reads them, and we’re not listening… That’s what [unintelligible 00:39:08.27]

[laughs] I get that feeling, too… Because as soon as I read them, someone’s like “Will you read those again?” It’s like, “Where were you when I read them?” I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to that question… Because you’re all right here in my screens, but… Okay, let’s see how it shakes out. Dogpile number one was Nick and Thomas. They thought ductility was a temporary tool to quickly fix an issue. A contraction of duct tape and utility - I thought that was pretty clever… And Mat is pretty clever, because that was his definition.


Two points for Mat.

That’s the sound effect they play when that happens. He does it in English, like “Cheeky…!” It’s like, English… [laughter]

We’ve got a clip right there.

Yeah. That’s it.

Alright. Dogpile number two was Mat and Adam. They thought ductility was a measure of how solvable a problem is using duct tape. That was Thomas’es measure. He made that one up. Two points for Thomas.

Great one.

Good job, Thomas.

Thank you.

I didn’t want to go with it, because I kind of figured it probably wasn’t true… But I figured, “Whoever did it earned the points.” Earned the points, you know?

He earned them. And guess who else earned a few points this round?


Yours truly, because ductility is the act of throwing something or someone out of a window.


I thought that that was defenestration.

Oh, shoot… I switched the words. I’m serious. I switched the words. [laughs] It is defenestration.

[laughs] Because you didn’t read the right definition for ductility…

No, I didn’t.

Do you want to –

Yeah, I know what ductility is. Oh…!

I’ll tell you what ductility is… Ductility is helpful objects formed from duct tape. That’s what ductility is…

Ductility is a metal is ductile if you can hit it with a hammer and deform it.

Right… I screwed it up big time. I actually didn’t switch them. What I did was I took defenestration and I pasted its definition on top of ductility’s.

Do not feel bad. Don’t throw yourself out the window. [laughter]

This is unfixable. I don’t think I get any points this round.

No points awarded.

That’s how we’ll fix it. I’ll go zero, and we’ll leave everything else alone. Wooh! So what was the correct definition again?

If a metal can be deformed by hitting it with a hammer, and it stays in that deformation. So like a wire has high ductility, because you can kind of stretch it out…

Right. The ability of a material to sustain significant plastic deformation before fracture. That’s what it was.

Yeah… I pasted the wrong thing. I was really excited, because defenestration was such a cool word.

It is a good word.

[00:41:59.03] And I have a round called “Not STEM”, because that’s not STEM. Throwing something out a window is not STEM…

No, that’s physics. That’s physics.

I’ve worked in some places, I can tell you…

Well, maybe. Yeah. I was trying to think of the ways I would argue that being STEM, because I read the definition and I’m like “That’s not really stem.” That’s just throwing people out windows.

Thomas, why did you know that so fast?

Defenestration, yeah. You knew that really well.

Why did I know that word? Just random facts knowledge, but… [laughter] But background context here…

Is required.

Well, I have my master’s degree in physics. Did you know that? Okay, so there’s a couple of things, like graviton, that – those ones were…

They’re hitting into your wheelhouse.

They’re hitting into my wheelhouse.

And throwing people out of windows was one of your hobbies in college, then?

Yeah, exactly. That’s actually how they dealt with us if we didn’t do well on our papers.

Okay. They defenestrated you.

They defenestrated me, yeah.

The worst part about this is I ruined two rounds, because I can’t use that one anymore either.

Well, actually, I ruined that by calling you out on –

No, you were correct. I ruined it by having the wrong definition for ductility.

You both ruined it. Don’t fall out over this. [laughter]

We’ve ruined it together.

So what’s the word again? Defenestration?

Defenestration is the act of throwing something or someone out of a window.

So is fenestration – would fenestration be throwing them into a window? Like throwing them up and in?

Thomas? Explain the physics of that one.

That’s what they do for firefighting. If they need to get you onto the second floor, and they don’t have a ladder, they’ve got somebody really big, and they go –

They fenestrate you.

That’s why they have the trampolines at the bottom? Is that just so they can bounce up and see what’s going on?

That’s just for fun, actually. It’s a very stressful job. So you know how at Google they have ping pong tables… That’s why they bring the trampolines.

Oh. It’s just like “Go and have five minutes. Billy, you’ve worked hard. Go and have five minutes on the trampoline. We’ll deal with the rest of this fire.”

Exactly. Yes.

Well, after a crazy round four, I have subtracted those three points that I gave myself, and I’m back at zero… But we let Thomas’s two and Mat’s two stand, because they did convince Mat – or they convinced the other people to select theirs, and so that puts them into a tie for second, Thomas, and a leader now, Mat leapfrogging over Nick and Thomas at seven, with eight. So it’s Mat eight, Nick and Thomas tied with seven, and Adam with five. I am down here in the basement, where I belong… And we move now to round five.

Break: [00:44:32.24]

And we move now to round five… This is our new round.

Oh, no…

Well, this is a different round, called “Give it a goog.”

Give it a what? [laughter]

Give it a goog!

Jerod, Mat’s cracking up. Do you know what goog means in British English? It’s a little bit inappropriate. Mat, do you want to say it?

That’s the round. Everyone has to guess. What does it mean in British?

[laughs] That might give you an advantage, Mat. An unfair advantage.

Jerod, he’s got a master’s degree in physics. How’s that not giving him an unfair advantage? Education is just cheating, guys.

That’s fair.

Education is cheating. It’s the most expensive form of cheating.



Yeah, sometimes too expensive to climb out from under… Hopefully, you’re putting that to good work. Aren’t you a software engineer? Are you also a physician?

A physician? That’s a different degree. [laughter] I can’t do that.

Yeah, that’s his next one.

Are you a physician…?

I thought you said you had your degree in physicians…

Physicians? [laughs[

Okay, for this round, called “Give it a goog”, which is goog, of course, the ticker symbol for Google, and not some sort of British euphemism, I hope…

We’ll have to bleep it for the British audiences, but yeah.

…is a round in which I began to ask Google a question, or type a phrase into Google, and then I paused and let it autocomplete.


Your job is to write said autocomplete. So what was the number one suggested autocomplete for the given phrase, in Google? And that phrase was “Why doesn’t Apple…” “Why doesn’t Apple”, and I stopped. And Google suggested a bunch of things. One of those things is the number one thing. And you now write what you think that is.

Did you do this in…

Incognito mode?

Yeah. Because otherwise it’s going to be specific to you, and it’d be something about, I don’t know, sports, or…

Right. And I wouldn’t want to share those skeletons in my closet… Alright, so there it is. “Why doesn’t Apple…”, finish that phrase. What do you think Google would autocomplete? I have Mat’s… I was in San Francisco once, in this bar, and I met an Apple engineer. And this was just when the M1 chips came out. And we were kind of chatting… And I said to him – he said “Oh, I’m working on something top secret, Mat.” And I was like “Oh, what is it? The M2?” and he just went like pale and quiet… So I had guessed the M2, as a joke, from the M1.

Did you work for Gizmodo at the time?

Oh, no. And no one will hire me in the press… [laughter]

Ifl you really wanted to make money, you should have stole off with his prereleased iPhone.

Yeah, that would have been good, actually… Although – I’m not a thief, really… But I could have won it in a bet.

Well, not in that case… You know, after he turned into a ghost. I mean…

He went all serious. He’s like “I can’t talk about it.” I’d guessed it, hadn’t I…? But it was such an obvious guess. Why would that be covered by NDA…? I don’t know…

Because they can’t tell you that they’re going to increment the number.

Yeah. Top secret.

Had you had said M3, he could have just laughed and said “Of course not.”

Yeah. Or M1 part 2. M1 Pro Max, actually, to be fair. They do have the ultra –

Those names don’t make any sense.

I have Thomas’es, and Nick’s, and Adam’s. I’m not sure who came in first there, but we know who came in last…

I don’t want Adam to feel picked on because he’s being slow.

Of course not.

You guys took ages to agree with me then…

It’s because they had to cross the ocean to get here.


Sorry, I’m in the middle of very complicated copy-paste. You know what can go wrong when I copy-paste wrong. I change the meaning of words.

Don’t do that.

Alright. Give it a goog. “Why doesn’t Apple…” Five potential responses. The first one, “Why doesn’t Apple Pay work?” The second one, “Why doesn’t Apple taste good like banana?” [laughter] The third one, “Why doesn’t Apple make cheaper products?” Number four, “Why doesn’t Apple let me change the default browser for iPhone?” Number five, “Why doesn’t Apple let iPads run MacOS?” There you have, the five potential autocompletes for the phrase “Why doesn’t Apple…” We start this round with Nick.

[00:54:19.11] Not with me… Can you repeat the first two, please?

Number one was “Why doesn’t Apple Pay work?” Number two was “Why doesn’t Apple tastes good like banana?” [laughter]

Apparently, submitted by [unintelligible 00:54:35.08]

Apple does support other browsers, sort of, and in the EU…

But that was a recent – yeah…

The default browser?

The default browser, I don’t think so.

You can change the default browser, but the default browser is always Safari everywhere, except for the EU now.

You mean the rendering engine versus the actual like app.


But would people know that?

But you’ve been able to change the default browser forever. So…

These are non-nerd searches, Nick…

Yeah, I mean, these are the masses here…

Okay. So then it is either one or two. I’ll go with one… Because apples are better than bananas.

Alright, number one. Nick takes number one. We go now to Thomas.

I’m thinking though “Why doesn’t Apple Pay work?”, because that seems like what the masses might be thinking…

We could be mis-stereotyping very badly… [laughter]

Well, okay…

In my experience, Apple Pay has worked pretty well.

It works pretty well, but…

I don’t carry anything else.

Anything else?

No wallet?

No wallet.

Where’s your ID?

It’s in the car…

Okay. So if you want to steal Nick’s identity, just steal his car.

Steal his car, get his identity…

I’m hopping in your car when you get out, buddy…

Alright… Well, that’s pretty good [unintelligible 00:55:56.25]

Which car is his, though? Which cars is his?

The one with his ID in it, Mat. Come on. Keep up.

My car is not identifiable.

What’s your VIN number? Yeah…

My license plate si VIM.

It literally is.

That’s so good.

Now he’s just doxxed himself hardcore.

Come on, Nick… Edit that out.

That’s funny, because my –

It’s MIV…

Is that why you’re so slow?

“Is that why you’re so slow?” [laughs] Rimshot…

I’ve never got a speeding ticket, let’s put it that way.

Quite bloated.

Thomas, we’re still waiting for you to decide.

Still waiting… I’m gonna pile on with Nick on the “Why doesn’t Apple Pay work?”

Alright. We’re gonna get the pile-on song out… Alright. We go to Adam.

It’s a pile-on… The other ones are too wordy, you know?

Which ones?

They’re all too wordy.

“Why doesn’t Apple let iPads run macOS?”

Yeah. That’s like –

It’s four words.

It’s like 17 down in the autocomplete. Not the first one. It’s an autocomplete, for sure, but not the first one. Overly explanatory is not good, in this case.

Okay. So you’re going with the shortest one?

They just added one word, “work”. Well, pay and work, I suppose. Two words. Count them. One, two.

So you’re piling on.

Pile on. Yeah. Number one.


I just shared my logic with you, Mat, so I’m giving you a leg up.

Mat, what are you thinking? We have a pile-on here…

There’s another one though that you could probably guess, just saying…

Tastes good like banana…

Well, that’s that one’s funny, but I think people – there’s no reason why… In an incognito mode, there’s no reason why it would assume Apple the company, maybe…

Oh, no, of course.

And it could easily be a funny one… Why doesn’t apple taste good like banana? I like that one.

Banana. It’s not banana, it’s banana.

Oh yeah, sorry.

Banana. That’s how they say it. And there’s a u in there somewhere.


Do you think the world’s population prefers banana to apple?

[00:58:04.20] Yeah, I’m the one –

[unintelligible 00:58:04.17] just say banana by itself, it’s like no, that’s not real, is it?

I’m the one talking funny.

Do you really say that, Mat? Do you say banaana?



It sounds like banaana-nana-nana…

I’m sorry about that, Mat… I feel bad for you.

You save loads of time, to be fair. At the end of your day, you’ve shaved – if you add it up over your lifetime, you’ve probably saved significant…

I mean, ours sounds so much better. Banana. I mean, that’s just better. Banana.

Yeah, it doesn’t hurt my ears.

B-A-NA-NA… Whatever.

Let’s hear a selection, Mat, before we –

I think it’s a pile-on.

You think it’s a pile-on? Alright. Should we play the pile-on song?

Gosh.. How about version two? A remix.

Let’s hear it. Yeah, make it different.


Have you ever seen a baby… That looked like an old man…? Have you ever seen a lady, that also looked like an old man? Well, I don’t know what that’s about, but we’re gonna pile on… And that’s why we sing the pile-on song…

It wasn’t as relevant as the first one, was it?

You should have put banana in there, buddy…

I don’t know what that was about, honestly… I feel like he just remixed an old song for us… But we’ll take it. It’s

better that –

You think that was written? [laughs]

[laughs] Good point. Yeah… I was about to say it’s better than toast underneath some beans. Alright.

There’s at least one more definition that was plausible, okay? It’s all I’m saying. One more definition was plausible.

So all four of you thought the number one autocomplete for “Why doesn’t Apple…” is “Pay work.” “Why doesn’t Apple Pay work?”, and that is the number one autocomplete for “Why doesn’t Apple…”, so two points for everybody.

We blocked them out.

A.k.a. a worthless round. Good job, guys. Way to ruin it. Interestingly - I thought this was interesting… The number two response was “Why doesn’t Apple pencil work on my iPhone?” And the number three response was “Why doesn’t Apple CarPlay work?” And the number four autocomplete was “Why doesn’t Apple TV work?” Are you sensing a theme?

But it makes sense. That’s what people are searching for. You don’t search for “Why is my iPhone working?” No one’s searching for that, are they?

That might be the better question. “Why is the iPhone working?”

That’s true. It’s mind-blowing when you dig into it…

There are books on that.

You need a physics masters to understand it, probably…

That’s right.

You don’t… This is gonna be my mark, for my life… [laughter]

Thomas Eckert, the physician.

It should say that, to be fair…

“Is there a doctor on this plane…?” I can only throw people out the window… [laughter]

I don’t fly planes, I fly helicopteurs… [laughter] After round five, we gave it a goog and Mat retains his lead with 10 points, Nick and Thomas with 9, and Adam with 7. We skip round six, because of reasons we will not revisit… And we move to round seven. Klein bottle.

Wait, it wasn’t even the next one down? You skipped to like four answers down, and then copied the definition?

Excuse me?

They both started with D…

I’m just trying to understand…

No, here’s what happened… Do you guys want the full explanation? Because this is how software works. I switched the tabs, round six and round four, because I thought it’d be a better flow. And then I had the wrong thing for four, and so six had the same thing as four. Yeah, so that’s why those two were involved. So thanks for revisiting that, even though I clearly declared we’re not going to revisit it…

Break: [01:01:45.23]

Round seven, klein bottle. That’s two words. Klein is the first word, and bottle is the second word. So klein bottle. Spell it out like that. Klein bottle. Excuse me, I’m off to go check the definition to make sure it’s correct, so as to not embarrass somebody a second time. Nick, first one in… We should have had you do a song about “Apple tastes good like banana.” [unintelligible 01:07:45.17]

Not too late.

That sounds like a nursery rhyme.

Was that Mat’s?

Yeah, that was Mat’s.

It could have been a hit, like the “Pen, pineapple, apple pen…”

Oh, yeah.

It would have been better if someone had gone for it, though…

Yeah… It’s okay.

Waiting on Adam.

Sorry about that.

It’s okay, I’m just letting everybody know…

Par for the course here. Just perfecting my words here.

Can I change mine?

You can, before the round begins… Not during. Sorry, Jerod. I’m doing your job.

No, it’s all good.

I didn’t swap the tabs though, so you’re okay. How about all of them tabs that guy had? 7,400 tabs?

7,400, yeah.

Come on, now…

Can you believe that?

I felt vindicated. I was lik “Yes…!”

I don’t know what you’re talking about.

I was listening to that news in my truck, just pumping my fist, and people were like “What’s wrong with that guy?” [laughter] Somebody else trumped me on tabs…

Yeah, Nick, there was somebody who had 7,400 tabs open over the course of two plus years. And they were quite upset when Firefox suddenly lost their session. I have all five definitions, and we’ll see which one is correct for klein bottle. Number one, a storage solution for Calvin’s fetted wares. [laughter] Is it fetted or feeded?

Fetted… [laughs] That’s too funny.

I’ve never even seen that word. Number two, a non-orientable surface with no distinct inside or outside. Number three, a mathematical construct with finite volume and infinite surface area. A klein bottle can be filled with paint, but never painted. Never fully painted, excuse me. Number four, bottle cap tester tool for fitness and watertightness created by Klein Tools. Number five, an algorithm for aggregating time-series data originally described by Robert C. Klein. There we go… I’m gonna go to Adam first. Surely, you’re gonna ask me to read them all again, and then we’ll see what you have to say.

[01:09:57.02] Just a few of them, don’t worry.

Okay, which ones you’d like to hear again?

One threw five, please. [laughter] No, I’m kidding around. I just need two and three. Two and three. I was just kidding with you.

Two and three. So two is a non-orientable surface with no distinct inside or outside. Number three is a mathematical construct with finite volume and infinite surface area, which could be filled with paint but never fully painted.

I like Thomas’s reactions to two and three. I’m gonna go with two.

[laughs] Okay. Interesting.

I was playing you, Thomas. Thank you so much.

“I was playing you, Thomas.” [laughs]

I got played. [unintelligible 01:10:28.09]

You got totally played. Alright, well, let’s see how Nick plays. Your turn, Nick. Oh, sorry, Mat. Mat, your turn.

Okay, I think I’m gonna go for number three. I like the idea that there’s a thing that you can fill with paint. I’ve always wanted something that you can fill with paint, but can never paint it. So yeah, it’s gonna be that one for me. And it’s mathematical, so… Maths is [unintelligible 01:10:53.16]

Yeah, it’s mathematics. Very good. Now we go to Nick.

Now I feel bad. I should have gone with three.

I’m gonna do that. I’m gonna go with three. And I think –

Oh, no! Don’t go with three…! [laughter] Come on…!

They’re piling on three.

This isn’t a pile-on game…

Why do you think it is?

It was between two and three, because I think you read them in the order that we – it’s actually in an order that you are on my screen.

That’s an insane reason.

That’s his logic.

That’s a meta game, isn’t it? You think I’m just reading them in the screen order…

I knew that mine was number one…


That’s a mad reason. You might as well consult –

This guy is really playing the meta game.

I’m the last one. I’m the last one.

No, you’re not.

No, Thomas has to go.

Oh, shoot. I’m not. [laughter]

So you broke the rules, Nick. You get kicked out. Get out of here…!

I’m not the only one screwing this game up…

Jason… Everything Nick has said during this podcast, just edit it. He’s gone.

You’re making it easier for me. That’s not fair. That’s not fair.

But that system for deciding I think is so random. Like, you might as well consult horoscopes, or something, Nick. Or get a crystal skull out.

That’s right. [laughs]

Yeah. Or a pseudo random number generator, or something.

I saw the stars last night. I knew I was playing this game today, and so therefore it’s three.

Like 80% of the Changelog people are Pisces…

Is that right?

Gerhard… Yeah.

A lot of Pisces, yeah.

Really? Adam, Amal, I think…

So do all those people have the same kind of day?

We have the same energy level. We vibe.

Well, we do check in with each other. Yeah.

No, but I mean literally. Like, you read the horoscope and it’s like “You’re gonna have some financial luck this morning, and then maybe some romance in the evening.” So all pisces are just having that same day, like some kind of distributed Groundhog day.

I haven’t had that day in a while, so you know… I get the evening part, but not the – no money in the morning.

You all read the same fortune cookie, and it just says “Defenestration.”

Yeah. And everyone just jumps out.

You all need to defenestrate – is that defenestrate or be defenestrated?

Yeah, I mean, are you the subject or the object? Alright, Thomas… Ball’s in your court here.

Yeah, I’m gonna choose – can you give me the exact definition on number two? I’m pretty sure it’s number two.

A non-orientable surface, with no distinct inside or outside.

Yeah… It’s number two.

It’s number two.

Jerod, you should choose. I mean, there’s a better answer out there. You should choose one answer.

[laughs] Just choose one.

If you were to choose an answer. I’m not saying that you would or you could… If you were to, which would you


If I was gonna choose one of these for the pure joy of it, I would probably choose a storage solution for Calvin’s fetted wares. Even though I don’t know what fetted means. But Calvin Klein. I mean, that’s the joke?

Fetted means smelly.

Okay. So I don’t have the vocabulary that Nick does, but…

That’s a good one.

I like that. And then I also liked Robert C. Klein. Because on that one, Mat just made up a false human, right? Mat, that was yours?

No, that’s Bobby Klein.

No, yeah, it’s me in disguise. This is Bobby Klein.

Well, that took a turn…

[01:14:01.15] “Hey, everybody, it’s Bobby Klein here, and I’m gonna tell you about our time-series algorithms…!” Is that too much? That’s basically the sort of voice I went with…

Is that a pretty good impersonation of the person? Is that accurate?

No that’s him, coming out.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, you’ve got a couple different personalities in there.

So wait a minute… You put on this British accent the whole time, but this whole time you actually had that other voice, that was the real you?

Robert C. Klein’s not the real me.

It’s like Al Pacino mixed with something else. Isn’t it, Jerod? Like, Al Pacino mixed with something… Do it again, Mat. One more time.

“I’m Robert C. Klein…! I’m not Al Pacinio, or Capuccinio, or whatever you said…!” It’s that sort of thing. It’s sort of like subtle… It’s subtle, I think.

Say “I’m a fan of man.”

That’s right. Yell something.

“I’m a fan of man!”

Yeah, I can see some Al Pacino in there.

A little bit.

Yeah, a little bit.

I think Al Pacino got a lot of his talking from Robert C. Klein.

Well, he is getting old, so… I mean, there’s some similarities there.

It’s true.

Alright, Mat and Nick picked number three; that was a mathematical construct with finite volume and infinite surface area. hat was Thomas’s, so two points for Thomas.

Sorry… My bad.

Meanwhile, Thomas and Adam picked a non-orientable surface with no distinct inside or outside… That is a klein bottle, the correct answer. So –


…two points for each of them.

It’s good work.

But Mat, good news - that does exist. It’s called Gabriel’s Horn. So all you need to go out to the store and buy a Gabriel’s Horn.

Is that what that is?

It has finite volume, and infinite surface area.

I wonder if they sell them on

You can get them in the US, but you can’t get them in the UK.

One of those, huh?

Because of Brexit. You could before Brexit.

You believe in a lot more stuff that can’t exist in the US… [laughter]

Let’s not dig too deep into that one…

Moving forward… After seven crazy rounds, we have – Thomas is in a position to win. He has 13 points. Remember, 15 or the end of the game. So he’s right there on the precipice of a victory, ready to be defenestrated out the window. And Mat with 10. Adam, catching it up, has nine. Nick has nine.

So it’s a tight game.

It’s a tight game.

We have a few rounds left… We now move to round eight, which is called “How do you do, fellow humans?” In this round, I have asked ChatGPT a very specific thing. Your job is to be a fake ChatGPT, and answer my question exactly the way that ChatGPT would answer it. So what I have told ChatGPT is this phrase: “Make a fictional word that relates to STEM, and a single-sentence definition of the word.” That’s what I’ve asked it to do.

[laughs] It’s insane that we have to guess…

Now, you must write the response to that particular command. And submit it to me now.

Quick follow-up on that one, Jerod… Do you think that’s okay? Do you think this is okay, that you’ve asked us to do this? Because - what on Earth…? How are we gonna get this?

Do I think that it’s okay? Like, existentially, or morally, or how do you mean?


Yes, I do.


To ask you to fake that you’re a large language model?

Yeah, that bit I’m fine with.

If they’re going to take our jobs, we should take their jobs. It’s only fair.

Right. This is kind of like a plug/pull kind of a move here.

Yeah. Just letting people text you [unintelligible 01:17:33.02]

We’re fighting back.

That’s basically what it is, yeah.

Now, I asked this to GPT 4.0. O stands for Omni. It did not respond with a picture, but I suppose it could have…

Did it say “Hello, my name is Scarlett Johansson. I’m trapped in a GPT factory…”

No, it did not. I think they had to disable that module…

They did.

They could have just gotten Robert C. Klein to do it. It would have been good if –

He has a great voice…

Lovely, ain’t it? It’s one of those relaxing, kind of –

It’s almost too alluring, though. I mean, it might have a lot of nerds falling in love…

Yeah, that’s the danger.

That’s gonna happen anyway though, ain’t it? We can’t really be trusted with life…

No. We might just throw it out the window, you know?

[01:18:17.26] Can you read again, Jerod, the prompt – oh, you actually shared that.

Yeah, I prompted it by saying “Make up a fictional word that relates to STEM, and a single-sentence definition of the word.” And don’t make it ductility. That word is dead to me. My ego is too brittle for ductility. Okay, I have Mat’s, I have Thomas’s, I have Nick’s…

But Mat, there is a Grafana dashboard internally that is your social score, as you say different things.

Yeah, yeah.

Internal at Grafana, or just in your house, Thomas?

[unintelligible 01:18:50.09]

You can set up alerts now as well in Grafana Cloud… So if I say something bad, I get alerts going off. It’s like “What are you doing?” It’s good idea. It’s a good system.

Oh, no. I know that, because I just triggered a bunch of alerts at work.

I’m sure it’s fine…

Mm-hm… Testing in production.

Alright, I now have all of the fake ChatGPT responses…

Real responses…

Well, one of them’s not pasting correctly. Hold on, give me a second…

These aren’t artificial, are they? I don’t understand, we’re worried –

What makes it artificial?

Well, these ones are real. These come from real intelligence.

These are real lies. Farm to table lies.

Yeah. We haven’t hallucinated these.

Non GMO, non GPU… [laughter] Alright, I told ChatGPT, I said “Listen up here, ChatGPT… Make up a fictional word that relates to STEM and a single-sentence definition of the word.” Here are five potential responses. Number one, “Sourdac is the study of quantum mechanics where it intersects with microbiology.” Number two, “Neuroquantimize - the process of encoding and manipulating neural information using quantum computing principles to achieve unprecedented processing speeds and accuracy.” Number three, “Geostasis - the theoretical point at which a planet’s rotation has ceased, due to the pull of nearby celestial bodies.” Number four, “To create a word like this, you can use the dictionary to find a word related to STEM. I have selected singularity… [laughter] Which has several concepts to paint on the context. I have chosen to use the definition based on gravity becoming infinite. Inside a singularity lies the infinipoint. The infinipoint - a place in space-time where all points are compressed to a single point.” And number five, “STEMist - a palindromic accolade describing those most adept at science, engineering and technology.”

Not a palindrome. [laughs] Not a palindrome there…

Palindromic [unintelligible 01:21:06.20]


Yeah, there you go.

There is a palindrome backwards. Have you heard of that? The word palindrome backwards is a word that is not a palindrome. Unofficially.

Yeah, no, it should have been a palindromatic word.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I guess it’s a – I don’t know. Is it my turn?

That long-winded one. The longest one does –

The infinipoint?

Yeah. I don’t know. Because that could easily be also a troll. This is too hard…

That’s the problem with this game, isn’t it? But you’re not going for the palindrome one?

I might go for that as well… If it’s got that wrong, that does sound like –

Well, it’s a fake definition anyways.

Yeah. But that’s a very GPT thing…

…mistake. But then so is the – what was the singularity one?

That was the long one. The infinipoint.

[01:22:02.21] That’s probably a troll, isn’t it? Is it? Could it be a bluff?

Is that a rhetorical question?

I mean, if someone can answer and tell me if it’s a bluff or not, I’ll take it. But it was rhetorical.

Jerod can tell you.

Alright, I don’t know, so I’m gonna go for the neuroquantimize one, just because –


Yeah, just because I think that’s cool. Whoever made that deserves a point.

Neuroquantimize. Alright, so that’s Mat’s. We go to Nick…

Kind of for similar thinking, I’m thinking that it’s the long one, number four, because it failed to do the single-sentence thing… And that seems like a very GPT thing to do.

It could be a bluff though…

Alright, number four. That’s the singularity one, the long one. And to Thomas…

I’m thinking STEMist, because it makes sense that GPT would maybe like not fully understand the palindrome thing, and maybe not know what STEM means… So I think STEMist.

Alright, very good.

That was number two, right?

That was number five. And last is Adam.

What was number three again, Jerod?

Three was geostasis, the theoretical point at which a planet’s rotation has ceased, due to the pull of nearby celestial bodies.

But maybe it’s just striking a pose, you know?

Maybe. What’s one? One seemed off, but curious.

One was sourdac, the study of quantum mechanics where it intersects with microbiology.

Why that word though?


Against my better judgment I’m gonna go with three.

Three is geostasis. Okay, I think we’re all in then. Let’s start right there. Geostasis, the theoretical point at which a planet strikes a pose. That was Thomas’es creation, so one point to Thomas.

Very good. I felt that was real.

Almost for the win.

Thomas went for STEMist, a palindromic, but not palindromish accolade, describing those most adept at science, engineering and technology. That was Mat’s.

Very nice, Mat.


One point for him. Nick went for the long one… Which I won’t read back, because it’s long. But it had both the GPT metagame, as well as the correct or a version of the answer in there as well. And that was written by Adam.

Ah, such a good bluff.

Genius, genius.

That’s such a good bluff. That nearly had me.

I almost got it.

Adam knows very well how GPT replies… That was a great one. And Mat went with neuroquantimize, which was actually invented by ChatGPT 4.0 model. So Mat found it. Neuroquantimize.

I only picked that because I wanted that to be real. I don’t really deserve that. But I’ll take it.

I’ll take my points back…

Points accepted.

Okay, you accept them. You’re not denying them.

You deserve it. You’re a legend. Be treated like a legend.

Well, the legend is still in second place though. He has not achieved first. Thomas is in first, with 14, one point away from winning, but Mat’s in striking distance; he has 13. He could definitely win this round. Adam with 10. Nick slipping into last, if you don’t count me - which we don’t - with nine points. We would count me if I was close to winning, but since I am not, we’ll forget about it. Alright, we now move to round nine, which is a non-STEM round. Dun-dun-dun…!

Wow, that was good.

Time to shine.

Sorry to all the STEMists out there…

Alright. And the word for round nine is chthonic.


[01:25:48.14] That’s spelled chthonic, and it’s pronounced chthonic.



There was a song about this in the ’90s, I think. Chthonic.


This is the video game, Chthonic. Chthonic Adventures, Chthonic Knuckles…

No, you’re thinking of –

Yeah, it’s the –

Chthonic Tales…

It’s [unintelligible 01:26:11.11] Thega Series. It was on Thega MegaDrive originally.

Chthonic the Hedgehog.

Yeah, I remember that. We had that.

What is our objective, Jerod, in this round?

Just to define it.


Can someone harmonize with that for me, please? [Thegaaaa] There we go. Yeah. Put autotune on that, please.

Do you just ask for autotune and it just happens?

That’s what we call post-production.

Yeah, the editors are great.

We’ve got to get at least one more song out of Mat before this show is over… So guys, be thinking about something that we can prompt him with.


Non-STEM. Yeah. Some things are stem, some things are non-STEM.

It’s such a strange spelling of a word. I don’t know any other word that’s –


Yeah. It sounds like a password.

Maybe it’s Greek, or something.

Bloody hell… Greek again.

You’ve exhausted all my Greek [unintelligible 01:27:11.09]

Although with Greek there’d be more k’s involved.

Yeah, and you’d have to do some sums halfway through.

That c at the end would definitely be a k. Maybe we get Mat to sing a Thonic the Hedgehog Song…

A what song?

Thonic… [laughs] So far, I have zero definitions for chthonic.

Isn’t it chthonic…?

They’re having too much fun. They don’t want the game to end.

…don’t you think?

Isn’t it chthonic?


Not bad. If that was an Apple product, it’d be iChthonic.


Here they come. Oh, they’re all in.

Here we’re going.


You had to let them cook.

Alright. Aggregating, aggregating…

Is this your audible version of a spinning wheel?

Or your pulsating dots…

Let me see what I can find on the web or chthonic.

I had a beach ball of death spinning, and then the beach ball itself crashed. And I was half expecting another smaller beach ball to appear next to it, just because [unintelligible 01:28:14.13] But yeah, it’s bad when your beach ball’s crashed as well.

Alright, all five definitions for chthonic. Number one, a colossal, terrifying creature with an octopus head, tentacles and a large scaled covered body with immense wings, often portrayed in mythos as an incomprehensible horror terrorizing wayward ships.

What…? There’s so much detail. [laughs]

Number two, the taste that remains in your mouth after eating apples and bananas. Or is that bananas? I don’t know. Number three, a therapy involving holding one’s breath for increasing periods of time to help increase lung capacity. Number four, of or relating to the underworld. Number five, a literary device in which both a protagonist and their foil switch sides by the end of the plot. That’s five definitions for chthonic. We start with Nick, because it rhymes with chthonic.

Does it?

I guess that’s true…

It is.

There can be a song there.

Yeah, it’s easy. It’s easy to write that.

Can you… Repeat… Three and four, please?

Oh, boy… I would love to. Number three, a therapy involving holding one’s breath for increasing periods of time to help increase lung capacity. Number four, of or relating to the underworld.

Any of those sound right…?

You just picked both of them. [unintelligible 01:29:49.28]


Ride the two, yeah.

I’ll do…

Personal spread?

I’ll do three.

Alright. Alright, Nick goes with three. That’s the lung capacity one. We go to Thomas.

[01:30:04.20] I’m also looking at those two, but I’m gonna zag. I’m gonna go to “Of or relating to the underworld.”

Thomas goes to the underworld.

Oh, thanks.

You did it. Adam.

I’m thinking of one or five. Give me one or five, Jerod.

Number one, a colossal, terrifying creature, with an octopus head, tentacles and a large scaled covered body with immense wings, often portrayed in mythos as an incomprehensible horror, terrorizing wayward ships.

If one of us on this call has come up with that, then – do you know what I mean…?

I do know what you mean…

Good, because I didn’t wanna finish the sentence –


One of us.

What do you mean?

I just can’t believe that.

How do you mean?

And then how about five?

Five was a literary device in which both a protagonist and their foil switch sides by the end of the plot.

They all sound so good, don’t they? They all sound legit.

These are all pretty good definitions, I’m not gonna lie.

Remind me two again? Two had something to do with the bananas…

Taste in your mouth, something with apples and bananas…

That sounds like maybe a Mat line.

The taste that remains after eating apples and bananas…

That’s kind of chthonic, too. That could be chthonic. Because after you eat the apple and the banana, you’re like… You’ve got that going on; like, it’s a chthonic feeling. Let’s go with number one. Whoever wrote that deserves some points.

Alright, number one then. That’s good. And now we go to Mat, for the final selection.

Yeah, I kind of think that’s such a good bluff… But also, I thought Adam did that long one…

He could be picking his own.

To get a point?

It’s not illegal.

The person who came up with that deserves the points.

That could have been subliminal messaging.

That’s right. “Deserves the points… Deserves the points… Give the points to number two…!”

I’m sorry, does anybody wanna change theirs?

“Number two… Go with number two…!” [laughter]

Am I the – yeah, I’m the last one, aren’t I?

Yeah, this is it, man.

“Number two is your selection… I’m giving it to you now…”

I love the short of the underworld one was written like a dictionary definition. But again, the others haven’t been as much, so I think that’s someone on here being a silly bugger, or a clever bugger, as I call it… I might just go geostasis, again… Just go for that one…

Geostasis again… [laughs]

Well, you’ve definitely got the stasis part down…

It’s tough. I’m gonna go with the plot one, because I love that. I love that there’s a – that’s so good. Again, if someone’s come up with that, it’s great. But whoever did the first one I think needs help.


Alright. Well, let’s start with the plot one. The plot thickens with a literary device in which the protagonist and their foil switch sides by the end. Mat guessed it. Thomas wrote it. One point for Thomas.

Nice one, Thomas.

You may have remembered how many points he needed to begin with…

Thank you.

He may be there. But does Mat score any points and beat him? That’s the question. Next up, we go to a therapy involving holding one’s breath. Don’t hold your breath too long, Nick, because Mat wrote that…


And so a point for Mat. The plot continues to thicken even more, as they’re both now scoring points. The long one, which we all agree was the best written and the most interesting, and the handsomest of the group, that Adam selected, was written by the one and only Nick Nisi. Hey, Nick. Nice one, dude! Woo-hoo!

Ahh, Nick Nisi…!

It’s about time…!

That’s very well done!

In fact, I’m gonna give you a bonus point for that.

[01:33:45.00] Because you’re gonna lose and the points don’t matter. So if I give you a bonus point, it makes me look nice. [laughter] Okay. Finally, Thomas selected “Of or relating to the underworld…” You know, kind of like how Chthonic the Hedgehog goes under the ground…

[unintelligible 01:33:57.09]

Yeah, that chthonic, “Of or relating to the underworld.” So two points for him there, giving him three points for the round, giving him 17 total points and the victory. Congrats, Thomas! You win.

That was beginner’s luck. It was a joy to be here, and… Yes, thank you.

Somehow Nick beat me in the end, though…

Well, I have a couple of questions before we go into our congratulatory interview. My first question is, is a literary device in which both a protagonist and their foil switch sides by the end of the plot - is that a real literary device that you just renamed, or you just made it up?

It could be. I thought of it…

Is their prior art? Does anybody know a story in which that happens?

Face Off. Nicolas Cage and John Travolta…

Face Off, yeah…

Yeah, but that is the plot. I guess what do you mean by switch sides? Like, usually it’s like the good guy becomes the bad guy, and the bad guy becomes the good guy. I mean, Face Off - it’s just their faces that change though, right? It’s a good example, Nick. I’ll take it.

Mm-hm. I like that.

Game of Thrones.

Who’s the good guy in Game of Thrones?

What’s his name - Lannister… And Cersei’s brother. He was bad, then he was good, and then he was bad. He actually wasn’t bad in the end. He just went from bad to good.

If you don’t count the last season.

Jamie is his name. Jamie Lannister.

Why are we spending all this time on it? Thomas completely just made it just.

He just went back to Cersei. He didn’t really turn. He just walked away. He went back to love, not something else.

Well, I can google it now. I wonder if there’s a real word for it.

Yeah, google that, come back… To our listener out there, if you know of any films or stories or TV shows…

It’s a definition that deserves a word to define it.

Yeah, I think Face Off is a pretty good example. My second question is for Mat. Mat, now that you know that chthonic rhymes with Nick, you also know it means “Of or pertaining to the underworld”, you also know that you can give it a lisp and make it Sonic the Hedgehog… Can you come up with a song perhaps that combines all these elements into one melodious sonnet? [unintelligible 01:35:58.10] Or STEMist. [laughter]

Mat the [unintelligible 01:36:02.13]

What key do you want it in, everybody?

F? E sharp? A minor?

E shar is F…

Don’t make it a minor.

Don’t make it minor. Okay, I know what I’m gonna do. Chthonic is how you pronounce it, is that right?

Chthonic. You got it. Or Super-Chthonic, if you wanna go… [laughs]


I like to play games on my fake Omega drive… I like to be the same as the characters on my fake Omega drive…

I’m like a little hedgehog spinning around and round… Going on all around, getting coins from underground…

Even though I know it, I’ve gotta get Mr. Doctor Bionic or whatever his name the baddie from Chthonic…

And isn’t it i-chthonic…? Don’t you think? A little too i-chthonic… Yeah…! I really do think…

I’m going down, down, down, down… Underground…! Down, down, down, down… Underground! I’m going down, down, down…. Underground! I’m going down, down, down… Sing along if you know it! Is Chthonic… It’s just Chthonic… It’s just – I don’t know, Chthonic… And it’s got a CH at the start of the word, which you don’t need… Get rid of it!

[01:38:24.13] There we go.


That’s great.

It’s the new bedtime story. Or song.

Play that to your kids.


That was iconic.


Oh, you should have put that in.

Yeah, [unintelligible 01:38:36.00] but I closed Chrome, didn’t I?

Aww…! Classic mistake. Alright, thank you, Mat. I like when you said “Sing it with us if you know the words”, and you were saying “Down, down, down” so I figured that’s what we’ve gotta do, and then you [unintelligible 01:38:53.13] Chthonic, you know?

I said “Sing along if you know it”, which you don’t.

We didn’t know the words, so…

We thought we did though. That’s our part. Yeah. It really made that difficult for us, for so many reasons… But we still appreciate it.

Yeah. But I just want to say one thing though as well… I am also a professional, so if you work with me, I am also a grown up. I just want to put that out there.

That’s a good disclaimer.

Yeah. And that your Grafana dashboard just went up a little bit.

Great. Thank you. That’s what I need.

The legend continues. Alright. Well, Thomas wins, like we said, and so we always allow our winner to take a moment and speak to the audience. If you have anything to talk about, you can plug stuff, you could brag some more, you could donate money to a cause, if you have any morality… You can do whatever you wanted to.

Well, my own money, donate it in public?

That would make you look good…

Yeah, but then that makes it not so altruistic, doesn’t it? [laughs]

Well, don’t tell us about it.

So we’re gonna pause the podcast, and I’m gonna go give money to a good cause, and then come back. You’ll just have to know that I did it, but don’t think about the fact that I did it, and don’t give me any kind of social credit for doing that.

Exactly. Good. I’m glad we got that covered.

This is tricky. I see why podcasting is so difficult. I will plug a project I’ve been working on called Devy, in part because once I’ve plugged it, I will have to go and get it into a shape that people can come and use it. But the idea here is that you can connect a GitHub repository and publish blog posts in Markdown, and just keep pushing to that GitHub repository… Kind of like a Substack for developers, using GitHub as the CMS. It’s an idea I’ve been playing around with for about a year now, and I’m ready to get some people on it. This is for early, early adopter type of people who don’t mind finding bugs, and yelling at me about them… And I would appreciate that. So come yell at me. Go check out and let me know what you think.

Is that Devy like D-E-V-Y, or how does that work?


Oh, I got it. Alright, The .com was too expensive for a side project.

You couldn’t get the whole website, you just got one page. So you have .page.

.page. That’s your page.

You should have got .pages, and then you could have had…

.pages… That’s not a TLD yet.

That would have been expensive then, I guess…

It could be if you put .page/s.

/s. That might be the solution here, is to [unintelligible 01:41:37.11]

Or .pag, and then get the /es. Then you’d have pages.

Is that Spanish, or…?

This is my first .page website, actually. I’ve never been to a .page before. Have you?

[01:41:51.19] It’s 10 bucks a month, so…

The price is right. Get them while you can. Get them while you can.

I don’t want that one.

I think was – no, no, no, no, you don’t have to, but it’s good to collect as many domains as you can…

That’s basically what I’m doing, yeah.

Yes, yes…

I’m starting to think this entire thing is just Thomas secretly running the .page TLD, and trying to get people to register.

That’s the real money. During the gold rush, you want to sell the pick axes, so…

Exactly. That’d be cool, an open source thing published with GitHub, and the only thing is you have to publish to a .page, you know? And then you just sell .pages.

I don’t know how you would control that, .pages. Yeah, exactly.

Just an idea.

That’s how you capture the market. This is good. We can have a little bit of a kind of [unintelligible 01:42:37.20] advisors.

We’re workshopping this as we speak.

Consultants. Workshop it, yeah.

Very cool. So check that out. Good job, Thomas. Way to be both a newcomer and the winner… I mean, Adam, I don’t know if you have anything to say for yourself…

Being the lowest?

Well, no, I wasn’t gonna say that. Just not winning. I mean… [laughs]

Remember, you’re the one who’s played this game a few times.

I know. It is a challenging game to win, honestly.

It is hard. You’ve only got a one in four chance.

You really do. I mean, you have to fool people, but you also have to know things.

Right. I think that’s how Thomas won, because he knew so many of the physics stuff.

That’s cheating, I think.

Sorry… Yeah, I think maybe I need to –

I didn’t see that coming… And I’m definitely not inviting him back…

Don’t, yeah… Please…


We all beat Jerod, and that’s the important thing.

I was shut out. I mean, I almost scored some points, until we realized the big flop…

Defenestration, yeah.

So it was all-around a frustrating game for me… Also, Nick was here, which also adds to my frustration. Nick, what are your thoughts on #define, your finishing near the bottom…? Anything else you’d like to say?

I’m not near the bottom. What’s that like, Jerod?

Well, let’s see… You do have 11 points.

Scores, did you say them?

Which is – probably not. Thomas had 17. Mat was in second with 14. Nick took third with 11, and Adam was in last with 10.

No, Adam was not in last.

Well, what do you mean?

Jerod was in last. [laughter]

I’m just the moderator.

If you can win, you can lose.

Well, I didn’t even play. How can you lose not having played? I don’t understand your logic. Your illogical. Mat, what do you think? Do you like this game?

Um, I like it had words in it, and then you have to make up the definition of the words, and then you have to guess what each other’s ones are… And if you get it right, you get two points. And then if you’re fooled by someone…

Are you just showing me how I should have explained it at the beginning? Is that what you’re doing?

That’s the bit I like about it.

Yeah. The rules.

I also liked the mistake. I think that was probably the most exciting bit of the podcast, when you made that mistake.

I liked how nobody believed me at first. Thomas had this dumbfounded look on his face… Like “No, seriously. I really did mess it up.” [laughter]

I like how it naturally just brings in the AI elements, so that we don’t have to talk about it, or reluctantly talk about it… It’s just there. And you get it out of the way.

It’s just part of our lives now. Yeah. Embrace it, is that what you’re saying?


Well, speaking of AI…

Oh, gosh…

Round number eight. My definition. I mean, that was gold, right?

That was a good one.

That was good. Yeah, that was really good.

You did a good job of actually sounding like it.

Read it again, Jerod. Go ahead.

Read it again. You want me to read it again?

Just for fun.

Well, this was the “How do you do, fellow humans?” round, in which Adam wrote: “To create a word like this, you can use a dictionary to find a word related to STEM. I have selected singularity, which has several concepts depending on the context. I’ve chosen to use the definition based on gravity becoming infinite. Inside of singularity lies the infinipoint, a place in space-time where all points are compressed to a single point.”

Is this singularity?

Honestly, I should get like at least seven bonus points.

At least seven…? [laughs] He’s trying to negotiate a win here. And Thomas already gave his plug.

That’s what would tie me for first.

We can’t negotiate a win for you.

You could edit it out. And then Adam, do you have a podcast you want to plug?

There’s a show out there I think that’s pretty awesome, and it’s called Oxide & Friends. I was just on it. I think it’s coming out this week, or next week… I’m not sure when. We were talking about Silicon Valley.

[01:46:12.10] Oh, gosh…

That’s not surprising.

Hard pass. Hard pass.

There was a little bit of love for you sprinkled in there, Jerod. You might wanna listen.

Ohh. Can you give me a transcript?

I didn’t run the show though, so I couldn’t control the topic.

Of course.

Well, when Bryan came on, he talked about Silicon Valley, so…

Well, of course.

Yeah, but I didn’t let him talk too much about it, purposefully. I didn’t go deep. I could have gone further in, but…

Was Jessie on that show, Jessie Frazelle? She’s one of the Oxide founders, right?

It was Adam Leventhal, and…

Jessie was a consultant on Silicon Valley.

Is that right?

Yeah, she was.

Yeah, that sounds right.

I was discussing the show.

Yeah, that’s awesome.

I mean, genuinely, it was on when we were in a startup incubator in Sunnyvale, in California, and it was too real that we genuinely couldn’t watch it. I hear people like to say about The Office, they’re like “Oh, I couldn’t watch it, because it’s so cringy.” But I’m like “Grow up.” But this genuinely – I couldn’t do it. The same things were happening, but it was going better in Silicon Valley. And I think when it’s going better in a comedy show than it is in real life, you’re gonna have to take a step back and reevaluate.

Lots were skipped in there, yeah… But we talked about other things too, but that was a lot of it. I would say probably 50%. Maybe 40%… But only because it kept going back there, and it wasn’t always me. I promise. And they want to borrow the ding for the show.

Oh, they can borrow the ding.

They love the ding.

Yeah, the ding works well.

The ding does work well.

And maybe even the spooler horn too, because I spoiled a couple things.

Nuclei, the center of your issues.

That was a good one.

I’ll say, Nick wrote some good definitions, even though he finished near the bottom - I’ll just keep reminding him that… The Nuclei definition was good, and the last one was spectacular. The monster, the horror –

It started with ch, and I was thinking a cthulhu.

Yeah. Good thought. Good thoughts. Good times.

Yeah. Very thoughtful answers all around. This was a solid round.

Solid cast.

The game changes so fundamentally depending on who’s playing. You’ve got different play styles, you’ve got people who want to go for the funny ones, and…

Right. Yeah, Mat played it straighter than I thought he would. He had a real good one with the banana, but beyond that, it was pretty –

I was coming to just be an absolute –

I tried to bring the banana back…

I was trying to be an idiot, and I did alright early on –

You were trying to be an idiot?

I thought “I’ve got a chance here.” Yeah, so I got –

You couldn’t keep it up.

[unintelligible 01:48:40.01] Foolish. But no, it was very fun.

With “Chthonic is a taste that remains in your mouth after eating apples and bananas…”

Honestly, all of them were very good definitions. It was hard.

It’s gotta be tough… Sitting over here with the actual answers for me it’s always easier, because I’m just staring at the right stuff, but…

Easy for you, does it, Jerod? How so?

Yeah, I guess [unintelligible 01:49:02.16]

Oh yeah, I suppose if you’ve got – oh, I see. So if you’ve got the answers…

That’s why I’m not playing. I can’t play. I know all the answers.

Well, you should have at least scored better then. At least. If not…

[laughs] I almost scored some points. Alright, let’s somehow land the helicopter. The last thing we have to do is say - well, if you like #define, let us know; we’d love to hear from you. We can play future games. You can submit your own words. I had a few listeners submit words. They just didn’t quite cut the mustard. You know, they’ve gotta be great. They’ve gotta be amazing.

They gotta be.

Also, graviton - not great. Three of you knew what it was… So even I didn’t cut the mustard on that one. You know…

We don’t have physics masters.

That’s true.

You know what I mean?

So no cheating…

Yeah. Which actually means that I kind of wasted my time. I got a year and a half that I kind of – I’m just never getting back.

We should each just get a masters now, probably, because…

Like an honorary?

That’s true, too. I can send you guys one. Once you have one, you can just copy and make a new one, so I’ll send you guys all copies…

Just copy paste that thing.

…of the physics master’s degree, yeah.

Fair. There are other #define game shows in our feed. This is our third time playing this particular game. If you want us to play it more, let us know. If you like other games, we have Gophers Say, we have Frontend Feud, we JS Danger… Those are also in the feed. They also can be found under the topic “games” on our website, There you’ll find every game show we’ve ever played for your listening pleasure.

Alright, that’s all for now. I guess all we have to do now is say “Bye, friends.”

Bye, friends.

Bye, friends.

Friends…! Hash Define…



Our transcripts are open source on GitHub. Improvements are welcome. 💚

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