Friendly Feud: JS Party Edition

We are here for a friendly… Feud!

So friendly.

Now, we used to have a game called Frontend Feud. And in fact, Adam, you had a really cool soundbite that you made for us where you said –

Oh, yeah.

“It’s time to play Frontend Feud.” I can’t do it. But we need a new one for Friendly Feud, so I thought maybe we’d just like live-workshop that here. Do you want to –

Sure.

Give us one.

“It’s time to play Friendly Feud…!”

Not bad. Okay, give us three more.

No. [laughter] One’s all you get.

Alright, well, we are here to play Friendly Feud, and we brought some friends with us. In fact, we brought our JS Party people. What’s up y’all?

Hey, Hey.

Ahoy-hoy.

Hello, hello.

To name them and shame them, we have Nick Nisi… You heard that hoy-hoy. We have Kball, Amy is here, and Amal, back from outer space.

Back from the Loop. I need my own Changelog & Friends show to kind of catch you up with all the things that’s been happening in my life…

Oh, that would be cool.

Really. So many – there’s so many good things to dig deep on, I think. But yeah, back-back.

And of course, b0neskull, Chris Hiller. How are you doing, man?

Mm.

He delivers every time. He delivers every time.

He’s so exciting.

The resident curmudgeon. Well, Friendly Feud is a game not of wits, but of… Vibrating? I don’t know, your job is to answer these questions in the same way that our audience already answered these questions. So maybe you took our Friendly Feud survey - you probably did; we had almost 200 people take it - and we asked a whole bunch of questions, and now we’re going to see which team can accurately figure out what our audience thinks.

So our teams today are divided as thus. We have team zero - team subzero, technically, because it’s a zero indexed array - is Adam, Amy, and Chris. Good luck to you.

Thank you.

Team sub one is Nick, Amal, and Kball.

Hello!

We’re number one.

Before we commence round one, I thought maybe you would like to talk trash to each other for a minute or two?

That man bun looks so cool.

[laughs] Of course, Adam’s referring to Nick’s gameboard avatar. If you are an audio-only listener, don’t worry. You can listen right along. But this is one of those episodes where it’s pretty good to have video, because we will have a game board live the entire game. So check it out at youtube.com/changelog and you can see Nick Nisi’s man bun, which is… Cute. Nick?

Amazing. Thank you, Jerod.

I like it, honestly. It’s kind of – it suits you, Nick. I’m imagining maybe you just ate a bite of hamburger, and it accidentally had mustard on it or something like that, and you’re making a face, like in disgust. Is that what happened?

Pretty much, yeah. My daughter did my hair, so only positive things to say about it.

Okay. Mayonnaise, mustard, ketchup… What’s your thing on burgers, Nick?

This is the worst trash talk I’ve ever heard. “What’s your thing on burgers?”

Um, nothing. I’ve never had ketchup, or mustard, or any other thing. I just have them plain…

What…?!

…because I am a functioning six-year-old. [laughter]

I was going to say… A boring human. Amy, will you please talk some trash at these people and say like “We’re going to win” or “You guys stink”, or something?

Well, the last time Adam and I were on a team together, we did win.

We did win. Yes. Last minute, in clutch, unrecorded. We won’t say anymore.

[00:07:42.01] That’s true. Well, let’s see what happens. Let’s see what happens. We have seven rounds of play. Each round we will have two people face off, and get a chance to guess first. Whoever gets the highest answer on the board gets to play that round. Their team then takes over, they get a guess until they have three strikes - that’s three wrong guesses - at which point the other team can confer amongst themselves and steal that round’s points by guessing one of the remaining answers that are on the board. Generally speaking, an answer only makes the board if it has five or more responses. There’s a couple of rounds for which that’s not true, but we’ll address those as we get there. Any questions about how the game works before we dive into around one?

So what’s the genre, like, of questions here? Like, is this like existential questions about like life, or – like, what’s the genre? Like, how can I mentally prepare for what’s ahead of me?

I would say the genre is developer life.

Okay. Dev life.

But not friends, right? Because I’ll fail. It’s Friendly Feud.

That’s right.

Before it was Frontend Feud.

It’s just developer life. We are broader than frontend.

I know, but not into friends… I don’t know what that is.

Do you have to guess first? Or do you press a button, or something?

So because of internet latency, which we’ve already enjoyed some today, we do not do timed guessing. We do rotational guessing. So we will give each team a chance to guess first, but during the face-off, I will just name the person who guesses first. Makes sense?

And then how do we work as a team? Do we get to kind of confer, like with collaborate with each other? Or –

That’s right. Only during the steal moment.

Ah, okay.

At any other time, you just shut your trap and hope your teammate’s awesome. [laughter] And no googling, no clauding, you cannot deepseek, you cannot shallowseek… We just sit, we enjoy, and we see who wins. Sound good?

This is like a strictly like hands-on-deck situation. Hands up in the air, fingers where you can see them, you know…

That’s right. No typing…

Okay.

How do we talk amongst each other? Like, just here in the chat here, the conversation?

Well, during the conferring you say it out loud, so that we can all hear it. You think out loud. And then during the guessing, you don’t talk unless it’s your turn. I feel like you guys are asking questions just to mess with me at this point…

No, no, that’s a serious one, because if we start guessing or talking amongst each other, the other teams hears our insights.

Well, they’re done at that point. Don’t worry, I’ll direct how it’s going to work. They don’t have a chance to do anything. They’re done. They’ve had three strikes.

I see. I understand. Okay, cool. The flow. It’s a flow.

Let’s move into round one… And our face-off for round one will be between Adam and Nick. Step right up. Now, you don’t actually step anywhere, because we’re just here in a virtual environment…

A virtual step.

Alright. Round one. We asked our listeners, “What’s the first robot that comes to your mind?” What is the first robot that comes to your mind? The top six answers are on the board. And because he’s a guest now, we will let Nick guess first. Nick, what do you think they said?

I’m going to go with R2-D2.

R2-D2. Is it on the board? [win alert] Yes, sir. And it is the number one answer, with 22 responses. Good job, Nick.

I’m so glad to know that I’m basic… Because I would have had the same guess. So this is great.

You just called our entire listening audience basic as well, so… Thank you for that.

[laughs] Basic minds [unintelligible 00:11:39.14]

Oh, gotcha. Basic minds think alike. Yeah. So that means Nick’s team – because he hit number one, Adam doesn’t even get a chance to guess. Adam can just sit there and be remorseful. And team sub one gets to play this round. So Nick went first. You got the first item on the board. R2-D2, 22 points. There are six total, which means there’s five left. We go now to Amal. What’s the first robot that comes to your mind? You cannot say R2-D2.

[00:12:06.27] Literally, I am predictable, and… Yeah, R2-D2 would have been my answer. The next thing that came to mind was Jibo, which I don’t think anybody even remembers that thing existed. This is going to sound like a really silly answer, but Chatbot. Can I answer chatbot? …even though that’s not a specific bot, but it’s a…

You certainly can. But did our listeners type into the text field “chatbot”? Let’s see if it’s on the board. [fail alert] Sorry, but that one is not a top six answer. That’s one strike to your team. We go now to Kball.

I mean, I am terrible at this thing, but the thing that sprung to my mind was iRobot.

iRobot, the great…

Well, that was a movie title.

Well, based off a book, right?

Well…

I don’t even know what it is. It’s just that’s what came to my mind. [laughter]

I won’t say the robot’s name then, because that is memorable.

Alright. Well, Kball goes with iRobot. Did it make the top six? [fail alert] I’m sorry, but it also was not on the list. Nick, you have a lot to choose from. There’s five answers left on the board, but your team has two strikes, which means if you get this wrong, it’s time to steal. What do you think?

Well, I know what I want to answer, but I’m not going to do it… So I’m just going to stay with the theme. C-3PO.

Show us C-3PO. [fail alert] Oh, my goodness.

Oh, no…!

A complete strikeout, with zero correct answers, except R2-D2. That means team zero, there are 22 points on the board, and you have lots of opportunity to get them, because there’s five robots left that have not been said out loud. Now, you three can confer. So talk amongst yourselves. You’ll get the 22 points plus whatever you score with this particular guess, if you get one. What do you think?

I have a couple in mind.

We only have one guess?

Correct.

Okay.

We’re conferring, right?

Yes, we are conferring. Johnny No. 5, WALL-E, Rosie…

Oh, yeah. Let’s go with WALL-E.

Sunny from iRobot, thank you, Kball.

Hal9000…

Hal9000…

Jarvis?

Jarvis, yes… Which one’s on the board, though?

All of these sound vaguely familiar to me, but I would not have been able to generate any.

Marvin, the Paranoid Android…

The audience is young, so Johnny 5 is not on the board, I think.

Yeah. Let’s go WALL-E.

I’m thinking WALL-E. But no…

I mean, it would seem to be like the most… I don’t know.

Alright, final answer… What do y’all think? What are you going with?

What other famous robot is out there? What about like the Boston Dynamics ones? Do those have names.?

Robot Dog? [laughter]

Those are pretty famous in the geek world. I’m thinking WALL-E though. I think WALL-E is probably –

Yeah, I’d go for WALL-E. WALL-E’s a good one.

Alright, WALL-E for the steal… Is it there? [win alert] Yes, it is. And it is the number two answer, with 20 respondents. That means team sub zero steals 42 points.

We should be able to get some more points. I’m sure our other options were there.

Well, let’s see what else was there. At number six we have Bender.

Oh, yeah. [unintelligible 00:15:36.13]

Of course, from Futurama fame. Seven people said Bender. In slot five - there’s Rosie.

Should have gotten that one.

Eight people picked Rosie from the Jetsons.

Roomba…

A Roomba…

We named our Roomba Rosie.

And [unintelligible 00:15:51.02] Marvin.

Oh, yeah. Marvin’s pretty good, yeah. Rosie’s spelled incorrectly. I believe it’s an ie, right? Isn’t it ie?

Rosie is a really good one. Yeah, these are all like fantastic.

Bender… I love Bender.

Bender’s awesome.

They’re like all of a different era.

Right. Which is I think the best part. They’re so spread.

[00:16:14.27] They are, aren’t they? It’s interesting.

Well, good job, sub zero.

Good job, everybody. So, a couple of honorable mentions… So, Kball, you guessed iRobot… Four people said iRobot, so you were very close. Three people said “the one from Lost in Space.” The robot from Lost in Space. Mr. Robot got three…

Oh, yeah.

Even though he’s not really a robot, right?

I almost thought about that one. Yeah.

C3PO only had two, so he’s nowhere near as beloved as R2-D2… The OpenAI web crawler got a shout out.

Was it actually just crawling the survey…?

And… Mark Zuckerberg.

Mark Zuckerberg…

Mark Zuckerberg?

Mark Zuckerberg wasn’t crawling the survey, but he also got a shout-out as a robot, so there you go.

Oh, yeah.

After round one, team sub zero is in the lead with 42 points, but there’s lots of rounds left, so we move around to round two, Amy versus Amal. Alright, now, team sub one got to go first last round, so Amy gets to guess first. We asked our listeners “What is your favorite file format?” The top five answers are on the board. Amy, what do you think they said?

I’m going to stick with the front-end theme, and go .ts. Just for you, Jerod.

.ts? Is it on there? [win alert] If it was, I would have deleted it.

No…! [laughter]

Nobody likes .ts. Everybody knows that.

It’s too obscure. Nobody likes that.

That would have fixed the number problem.

It’s not a problem, it’s a feature.

It’s a feature… Oh, my gosh. Well, so this is so funny… I feel like I’m being trolled right now, because I’m literally in the middle of a design decision on some new config files, and we’re arguing over YAML versus TOML, because obviously, nobody wants JSON, because you can’t do comments… JSON is for computers, not humans… So it’s between – so, I mean, YAML is great until it’s not. Like most things, love-hate relationship. I almost want to say – I want to say TOML, but I’m not sure how popular it is, really. Oh, my God… I also just want to say .txt, because, like “Ha, ha, ha.” I don’t know.

Pick one. What do you want?

Let’s go with YAML. I feel like YAML has got to be on the board. Or you know what? Can I – I’m sorry. Let me go with TOML.

It’s too late. It’s too late.

Okay, fine. Fine. Fine.

Is it on there? We all know it’s not on there. [fail alert] No. Nobody likes YAML.

No, I figured, you know…

This is their favorite file format. It’s not like it’s okay… Alright, back to you, Amy. We haven’t landed yet, so here you get a second chance.

It’s like, I know what my favorite file format is… Let’s mix it up.

You already said it.

No…

.ts?

[laughs] I’m just going to go with .svg. Let’s go for the images. That’s not my answer, though. I am going to go with an image, though. Let’s try a .png. A png.

Show us png. [fail alert]

Oh, my gosh…

Who takes this survey…?

Um, our lovely audience takes it, thank you very much…

Not me…

Well, I asked you guys not to take it. Okay, Amal, back to you. I mean, someone’s got to get one eventually.

Okay, now I’m going to say the wrong answer in hopes that it’s on the board, which is JSON.

Okay, so she thinks maybe JSON… Even though you don’t think it’s your favorite, maybe somebody does. Does anybody think it’s their favorite? [win alert] Yes, they certainly do. And it is the number two answer, with 27 people love JSON.

[00:20:12.19] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, nothing wrong with JSON, it’s just not great for humans communicating, which is what for me would put it into a favorite. If it’s just machines communicating, then… Yeah, all good.

If it’s just machines, you might as well be using a binary format, right, Kball? Kball, you’re up now. You guys take the round.

I’m going to go with the ye olde txt file.

Show us plain text… [win alert] Yes, sir. And man, there it is, plain text. 24 people love it. They love it. They love it.

Nick, what do you love?

I love plain text, and I love the improvement of plain text that is Markdown.

Show us Markdown. [win alert] Number one answer. Of course, everyone’s favorite file format. 35 people said Markdown, and they’re my friends. Nick gets it right. So far, you have 86 points amongst yourselves, and zero strikes. Amal, back to you. There’s two left on the board. Slots four and five.

Yeah, this is awesome, because I completely spaced out about Markdown, because I’m thinking about what’s used at runtime… Let’s see. I wonder if MDX is on the board.

Do you want to lock that in?

Yeah, yeah. Sorry… [laughs]

It was more of a question than a statement… Show us MDX. Not DMX, everyone’s favorite rapper… [fail alert] I’m sorry, but it’s not on there. First strike. Back to Kball.

Alright. Well, let’s see. So we’ve got Markdown, we’ve got JSON, we’ve got plain text…

These are also AI’s favorite formats.

Hm… Who took this survey…?

I’m actually going to go – I’m going to go a little older school and I’m going to say XML.

Wow…

Show us XML. [fail alert] Strike two. Back to Nick. Nick, it’s all on your shoulders here.

You’ve got to save us, Nick.

Again…?

No commenting.

Oh, favorite file format… Ah, we’re on a podcast, I’m going to say MP3.

MP3. Is it on there? [fail alert] I’m sorry, it is not. Strike three means we’re back where we were last round. Team sub zero, opportunity to steal. Please confer amongst yourselves. You have the slots four and five. If you hit either one of those, you get all these points, and then some.

People like GIFs.

Yeah, that’s where I was going, b0neskull. GIFs.

Yeah…

It’s got to be the one – I mean, that’s the one on there, right? We’re talking about nerds here. Like, nerds. Come on.

You’ve got to get your memes.

Maybe like Zip…

Zip could be there, but maybe…

I’m thinking GIF.

Alright. Amy, do you agree with that?

I do agree. Wholeheartedly.

Alright. For the steal, 86 points on the board… Is it GIF? [fail alert] No, it’s not. Which means those 86 points are awarded to team sub-one.

Yay. Good job. Good job.

Oh, my gosh.

And they take the lead. Now, let’s see what was in slots four and five. In the number five slot, we have everyone’s favorite file-based database, SQLite.

What?!

Six people love SQLite files.

That makes sense… In all the world, six people.

There’s lots to like. There’s lots to like.

There is. I mean, SQL brings this calm to my nervous system that nothing else really brings that level of calm when it comes to programming.

Right? And there’s some people that have found that in certain circumstances it’s actually faster than the file system.

The Mongo people are just rolling in the grave right now…

[00:24:12.29] Oh, gosh… And at number four, the other file format that people love is CSV. Eight people said CSV.

That’s a choice…

The survey got into a bank, or something…

No, it does make sense though. CSVs are awesome, you know…

Here’s some honorable mentions. So TOML got four shout-outs, which beat YAML, which got two… TAR… No one said TAR. Three people like tarballs. Amy, SVG got three shout-outs… Only two people said GIF, and nobody said JIF, because that’s not how you say it. And then finally, one person said “the one with code in it.” That’s their favorite file format, is the one with code in it.

Okay. After two rounds, team sub one is in the lead, almost doubling - no, more than doubling team sub zero’s points. 86 for Team 1 and 42 for Team 0.

Seven rounds, right?

Seven rounds. We move now to round three. Of course, we asked “What is your favorite file format?”, but we also would love to know, “What is your least favorite file format?” This round starts off with a face-off between Kball and Chris. Step right up. Kball, you get to go first this round. What do you think is our listeners’ least favorite –

I’m going to bring it back. We’re going to throw XML out there again.

Oh, my God… [laughter]

You guessed XML for favorite… Now you might think it’s the least favorite. Is it on the board? Least favorite? Let’s see it. [fail alert] Yes, sirree, Bob. And it is the least favorite of all people. 28 respondents despise XML. So we find ourselves in familiar territory, Team 1 is playing this round as well. Nick, we go to you. There are seven on the board. XML is number one, which means two through seven are still out there.

Hm… I am going to say YAML. I think that everybody hates YAML. [laughter]

This is like the backfire round. Or I guess last round backfired. This round is more accurate, because yes… [win alert] YAML, the number two response, with 25 people despising it. Amal, to you.

Yeah, that was going to be my answer, was YAML. It’s functional, but no one likes to tab. Let’s see. I’m really tempted to say JSON, because I think the lack of trailing commas and comments is really quite frustrating for many folks… But I don’t know. It’s between – well, I don’t want to put multiple answers out there, but… And I cannot confer with my team, right? I can’t get advice.

Correct…

You can attempt, but you can’t.

But I can’t. You know what? Let’s put JSON on the board. Why not?

Why not? Show us JSON. [win alert] Number seven. Five people said JSON. So you now have one, two, and seven. And those middle ones need guessing. Kball?

Alright, I’m going to go .doc.

I was just thinking that.

Show us Word docs. [win alert] Yes, at number four. 19 people said they hate Word docs. To Nick - you’re halfway home. Actually, you’re more than halfway home. You’ve got four of seven; numbers three, five, and six still available.

Okay, we have YAML, we have docs, we have JSON, XML… I know TypeScript won’t be on there, so… [laughter]

Wow…

[00:28:09.18] Because people aren’t thinking about it. That’s a [unintelligible 00:28:11.12]

Because they’re being productive.

Oh, my God… I’ve like really – I’ve like missed Nick being trolled by Jerod so much.

And the other way around, right?

And the other way around, yeah. The circle. They’re like a Tom and Jerry situation, you know? I think the real question is who’s Tom and who’s Jerry, you know?

No, it’s like a roadrunner [unintelligible 00:28:31.25]

We all know which one I am. Mee-mee!

The coyote.

See how slow you were on that? [laughter]

[unintelligible 00:28:43.17] dropped on your head just now.

Yeah, totally. Alright, Nick, what have you got?

If I go with my previous, thinking that bankers took this survey, then – I’m going to say the text files.

Show us text files. [fail alert] First strike.

Yes…!

Alright, Amal…

The demise begins…

I think I’m going to say Excel/spreadsheet/CSV. Basically, they’re all like proprietary or non-proprietary versions of the same thing.

Well, pick one.

Well, I mean, do I have to?

Well, you said slash spreadsheet. I mean, is that a file format, slash spreadsheet?

I mean, open spreadsheet is a thing. Alright, so I think – let’s do… Yeah, CSV.

Okay, CSV was in the list of favorite file formats. Are you sure?

Oh my God, stop making me doubt myself. Hold on… I’m not sure.

[win alert] It’s on there.

It’s on there? Okay.

Yeah, I was messing with you. I was trolling you. It’s been too long…

I was like “Oh, no…!”

Number six.

Oh, yay. Yeah, Excel. [unintelligible 00:30:03.05]

Oh, shoot. Did you say CSV?

I mean, I was just there – like, okay, Excel, CSV, spreadsheet… Same family, same category.

CSV is also correct…

Okay…

Come on, Jerod…

Well, she said all three. She said this, that…

I really did, in all fairness.

I forgot which one she actually picked.

It’s the same number of points either way.

It doesn’t matter. They have to get this one. They have to get this one.

I feel like this game is a little biased, right? Like, to steal you only have to get one right. But if – we’ve got to run the table.

Exactly.

That’s how the game works.

Take it in with Steve Harvey. I didn’t design this game. Alright, Kball…

We’ve got – already on the board we have XML, YAML, Word, CSV, Excel, and JSON. And the question is, “What’s missing that’s a least favorite?”

That’s right.

I’m kind of – I’m pondering PDF. I feel like that might be up there. Yeah, I’m going to go with that. I’m going to say PDF.

Like PDF more than YAML, but less than Word?

I feel like – I actually suspect this has a lot to do with like how much people are exposed to it, and also how much annoying it is to modify… And dealing with PDFs – like, the tooling has gotten better, but I bet that’s still up there. So I’m going to I’m going to put PDF out there.

Alright. Is PDF that missing number three of the seven least favorite file formats? [win alert] He got it…!

Nice…

With 20 respondents not liking PDF. I think that’s exactly right, Kball. We know about it, and we’ve tried to program with it, and it sucks to work with.

I also love it when websites just stick PDFs on the website, and it’s like, you can’t select text, there’s no indexing or searching of the content… It’s rough, rough times.

[00:31:57.28] We were just talking a couple of weeks ago with Bert Hubert - I can’t say his name appropriately - who makes a government tracking website in the Netherlands, and he was just doing the opposite of singing PDF’s phrases. He was just saying how bad PDF is to work with. And a lot of governments, even with FOIA and whatever kind of stuff where the documents are supposed to be public, they just throw PDFs out because they know it’s harder to work with. And it’s like, at that point, I would love XML, even though I hate it, compared to PDF. So I’m actually surprised, but… XML is top of mind, I think, when you think of things you don’t like.

Yeah. What we really need for like non-programmers is like Webflow… Something that can make something pretty and easy, but you get all the benefits of it being structured HTML. What it spits out, you know… But yeah.

Dreamweaver.

Yeah, I think you’re right.

I was gonna say, was that a product placement, Amal? That was really good. You’re like “What we really need is Webflow.” [laughter]

Not paid or sponsored by Webflow.

Alright, so I think we’re getting away from the topic, which is we are dominating, so we need to get back on the topic of our domination, and give Team Zero a chance to show their zeros…

Oh, now K-Ball’s getting alive…

I mean, I was waiting for y’all to pick up the trash talk, and nobody was filling it in.

The only reason you guys won that round is because Jerod gave you the bonus, okay? You’d have faltered on the bonus. CSV and Excel are not the same. She got two for one.

They had strikes to spare. They had strikes to spare. Okay, we’re gonna award – this is 109 points now going over there to Team One. And after round three, it’s starting to look like a wipeout. Team One has 195 and Team Zero has 42. There’s lots of rounds left. We move now to round four.

Break: [00:34:04.09]

This is the inverted round. The inverted round works differently. There’s no face-off. We just toggle back and forth between teams, with an opportunity to guess. The question that we asked our listener is “Name the first protocol that comes to your mind.” However, in the inverted round you get more points for matching further down the board. So the number one answer is worth the least amount of points, and the number five answer is worth the most amount of points. Since he’s been sitting quietly most of the game, we will let Adam go first.

Fantastic.

[laughs] Sorry.

What?

Fantastic.

The look on Adam’s face is just priceless. It’s just priceless.

Well…

What do you think, Adam? The first protocol that comes to your mind, but actually the fifth first… You know what I’m saying?

The fifth first? Oh, gosh.

Well, if you want more points, you’ve got to get down the board. If you want not as many points, you name the actual first protocol.

What the heck is a protocol, in particular?

Well, there’s no follow-up questions on the survey, so it’s however they interpret it.

That’s like a good name for a memoir. “What the hell is a protocol?”

Well, I didn’t say hell…

Oh, you didn’t say hell, sorry.

She’s spicing up your biography.

And it’s the “Name, the first protocol that comes to your mind.”

The text that you’re reading right there on the game board is literally the text that they read in the survey.

The first one that comes to mind, and it’s the fifth answer.

Well, you would love to get the fifth…

Oh.

…but you could get the fourth, or the third…

So I’m just trying to get one. Okay.

Yeah, you just want to match the board, but the lower down, you get more points. And you guys are quite a ways behind…

Thanks for reminding.

[laughs]

I’m not really sure what a protocol is in particular. I mean, is it like an API? Or is it –

Can I explain it? Am I allowed to explain it, Jerod?

Don’t help him, don’t help him.

No, go ahead, Amal.

No, I mean, it’s basically… So the term comes from the –

[whispering] He’s not on our team…

Okay, fine. Then I will not. According to –

Oh, gosh…

I mean, Nick is whispering “He’s not on our team…” He’s on our bigger team… You know?

How about this, Adam - I will give you a for instance…

Sure. Thank you.

…and one that isn’t actually up there, so we’ll all know that it’s not up there. But here’s a, for instance. gRPC is a protocol that one person said. But it’s not up there. It’s not in the top five. So you’re trying to find another protocol similar to that…

Like WebSockets. Let’s put WebSockets out there then.

WebSockets. Alright. Show us WebSockets. [fail alert] That one also did not make the top five. We go now to Nick.

What, you’re trying to throw us off with this gRPC? So I’m going to go tRPC.

What’s that?

TypeScript RPC.

Oh, my gosh…

Gosh… No one’s going to guess that.

Let me just not even make it dramatic. [fail alert] Ridiculous.

I’m pretty sure that’s also not a real protocol.

Not only was the answer wrong, it was kind of silly.

It is.

Really? By who? By what? What standards body?

Alright. We go to Amy.

Oh, I get to go. This is probably higher up on the board, but I’m going to go with HTTPS.

Okay. Show us HTTPS. [win alert]

Nice.

It’s on there. Number three. 16 people said HTTPS, which gives 15 points. We’ll award those immediately, and go back over to team one, to Amal.

Oh, man… Now that I know HTTP is lower, I’m like “Oh, man… Oh, no.” I thought it was going to be number one. Let’s say UDP.

Show us UDP. [fail alert] Not on the board. Chris.

SSH.

Show us SSH. [win alert] It’s on there, and it’s the lowest answer, which is the most points.

Nice…!

What?!

You scored 25 points.

I would have totally expected that to be number one, if not HTTP… But wow.

Alright, team zero coming back now… We go to team one and Kball.

Did we already say TCP?

We did not. We said UDP.

Oh, I think TCP.

Show us TCP. [win alert] It’s on there, second most popular answer. 20 people said it. That gives you 10 points.

I thought UDP was going to score like lower than TCP… I was trying to go low… Didn’t work.

Back to team zero and back to Adam.

Maybe just DNS.

Another good guess. Show us DNS. [fail alert] Not on the top five. Back to Nick.

Is your survey automatically redirecting to HTTPS for all non-secure traffic?

Is that a weird way of asking if it’s also a different thing? [laughter] I did not combine any protocols into a singular protocol.

[00:42:15.13] Okay. HTTP.

Okay, there’s our number one, HTTP. [win alert] With an overwhelming 90 people saying HTTP, only worth five points. But hey, it’s still five points. We go back to team zero and Amy.

Come on, Amy.

Can you find the last one? We’ve got HTTP at the top, TCP, then HTTPS, then a blank splot… What’s a splot? A blank spot. And then in fifth, SSH.

I’m going to go with FTP.

Oh, good job.

All your favorite files. Do you transfer them? Let’s see… [win alert] Yessiree.

Wow.

FTP, yessiree. Six people said FTP, which is worth 20 points. We’ll award those now. Alright. Very good. Thus ends the inverted round. I think team zero scored more there than team one, because they’ve closed the gap. However, team one still has more than twice as many points, with 210.

For now.

Team zero with 102. We have three rounds left, so there’s lots of game to play… And we move now to round five.

This one’s a little bit different. We asked our listeners to choose a number between 1 and 20. But we said “Your goal is to choose the number that you think the fewest other people are going to choose.”

Oh, my gosh.

Okay? Now, your job is to guess the one that they chose the most, that they think people chose the least.

Can I just state for a fact that – I mean, I don’t want to speak too soon, but it feels really great to be on the winning team…

Oh, my gosh…

I just wanna put that out there… [laughter]

And you just lost.

They not like us… They not like us…

That’s when the Arrested Development narrator comes in and is like “She wasn’t”, you know…

Yeah, thanks… [laughter]

We’re going to start with Nick. Nick, which number, including and between 1 and 20 - so it’s less than or equal to - do you think our listeners chose the most, that would be chosen the least?

First, we need to break down this form. Did you code it?

Did I code this form?

Yeah, that people were filling out.

It’s just a PHP file that posts to itself.

Okay, PHP… PHP distinguishes between ints and non-ints, right?

Oh, my God…

It’s got floats, and stuff… I’m wondering if it has to be an integer.

I’m wondering if you can just guess something. [laughter]

The least chosen in a form like this, and knowing our audience of bankers, I’m going to say 3.14159.

I’m thoroughly confused as to what we’re doing in this round… [laughter]

Alright, show me 3.14159. [fail alert] No, that’s a foolish answer. Okay. To you, Adam.

The correct number is one of two numbers… Which one should I choose?

[laughter] I like this…

“Is it one or two?”

It’s between one of two numbers that I’m going to say.

Okay.

I will declare them soon. I will only declare one, to not give away the other hand…

Okay.

I’m going to go with number nine.

Show us nine. [fail alert] I’m sorry, but that was not one of the top six answers. Nick?

Oh, back to me. Okay…

Yeah. Against my better judgment.

I’m going to say 19.

[00:46:00.05] Show us 19. [win alert] There it is, 19. So 12 people chose 19 thinking that that number would be chosen the least. So team one gets to play another round. Amal, if our audience had to choose a number between 1 and 20, with a goal of choosing the number that they think the fewest other people will choose, which ones would be chosen the most?

Any other layers to this game? Any other inverted –

Not yet.

Okay.

Just straight up.

I’m going to choose my favorite number, which is seven.

So you think your favorite number is the least chosen number?

I’m just a gambling woman.

Oh, you’re just going straight gambler. Alright. She’s a gambler. Is it on there? [fail alert] I’m sorry, it’s not. K-ball.

I’m going to go with one of the ends, so I’m going to go with 20. [fail alert]

Show us 20.

Oh, no…

Back to you, Nick.

That was my strategy.

You should probably say one then, Nick.

You’re right. I’m going to say two.

[laughs]

That’s exactly what I [unintelligible 00:47:06.09] to do.

Completely out of left field… Is two? [fail alert] No, siree…

Two is an amazing number.

Three strikes and you guys are out. You only guessed one of the top six numbers that people chose, thinking that nobody would choose them… Which means it’s time to steal, and you can confirm amongst yourselves. There are five possible matches up there, and we’ve eliminated quite a few numbers. So, I mean, at a certain point, it gets to be good odds.

Yeah.

It’s not pi…

13.

It’s arbitrary, is what it is. I was thinking 17, but I like 18 as well.

I was thinking 17.

Yeah, prime. 11.

Prime numbers.

Okay, we got 17 or 11…

The other question is how OCD is our audience?

Very.

Why do you ask that?

Well, my husband fits into this category when he’s doing the volume; the volume cannot be on certain numbers. So I would also say this is kind of like that.

Yeah, potentially. That’s why I’m thinking 17. High enough, but odd.

Final answer?

I don’t know. 11 is also a pretty good number. What do you think, Chris?

I like 17.

17. What do you think, Amy? You thinking 17?

Lock it in. Lock it in.

For the steal, was 17 the number that was the most chosen by people thinking it would be the least chosen? [win alert] Yes, it was. Number one answer, 17!

Nice!

That’s impressive. Good job, guys.

34 people chose 17 thinking that the least number of people would choose 17.

Well, when I said I had two numbers, it was 9 and 17.

You guys steal and you get 46 points, because there was a lot left on the board. I will award those now and we’ll see what else was on there. So number six - Nick should have said one, because 10 people did go for one.

Wow…

In fifth –

Adam told you…

…the number eight. 11 people thought eight would be chosen the least. The number 13 - 12 people. And is 11 on there? No, it’s not. You would not have stolen. 14 was picked 12 times.

Yeah, give us all those points.

Now, here’s the actually least chosen… I already gave you the points. You don’t get these.

I want those points…

Here’s the actually least chosen ones. 19.9 was once. 3.1415 was only chosen once, Nick. You were very close.

Dang it.

6.9, and then somebody chose 8.12387651230988, and then a whole bunch of zeros. So I should have said integer.

Clearly.

Somebody spelled out the word four, but that didn’t fool me. I can normalize that. One person said E, or Euler’s number, which we all know is the base of the natural logarithm and exponential function that approximates at 2.71828.

We all know that. Yeah, I agree.

[00:50:05.12] Yeah, it’s the powerhouse of the cell. [laughter]

Is that mitochondria.

Mitochondria? Jinx. [laughter]

And then the actual number that was chosen the least is five. Only one person chose five. So you win, whoever chose five. You win. Well played.

That was very well played.

Alright, so after now five rounds, it’s getting pretty close, actually. Team zero has 148, and team one has 210. We move now to round six. Okay, this is a bit inverted, because we also asked them “What number do you think will be chosen the most in the previous question, aka the worst choice?” So they had to guess which would be chosen the least, and then they had to guess which one would be chosen the most.

Now, you know what was chosen the most, that they thought would be chosen the least. But now you have to guess what was chosen… [unintelligible 00:51:01.17]

I was gonna say, can you even say that with a straight face, Jerod?

I’m enjoying this a lot… It’s very hard to keep a straight face. Facing off in this round is Amy and Amal, and we’ll start with Amy. So which of those less than one, less than 20 numbers will be chosen the most? Not were chosen the most, but that the person thought would be chosen the most right after they selected the one they thought would be chosen the least?

Ten.

Show us ten. [fail alert] Sorry. Didn’t register. Amal.

I honestly don’t – unfortunately my audio is a little lagged today as well, so between that and like this inception of confusion, I’m going to just guess a random number. Let’s go with seven again.

Show us seven. [win alert] You randomly guessed the number one answer. 34 people thought seven will be chosen the most. But we all know that it wasn’t, because 17 was chosen the most. Okay. So team one’s playing again. We go to K-Ball.

I mean, under the principle of trying to invert, let’s go with five.

Show us five. [fail alert] X marks that spot. Nick.

14.

Show us 14. [fail alert]

Nope. One more strike, Amal. Unfortunately, you guys are leaving the board so open that when they steal it, there’s not much points left there.

Yeah… Let’s see. Is it my turn?

Yeah.

Okay, just making sure. I’m lagged, I’m lagged. Let’s do five.

Show us five. [fail alert] Third strike. A chance to steal once again. This has just been a game on repeat… Every round feels the same. Team one plays, team zero steals. What do you think?

The number one is an obvious choice…

8, 12, 16…

Even numbers? [unintelligible 00:53:06.28]

I love that. [laughter] Well, we’ve got an odd number at the top there so far. And the premise, Jerod, is what exactly? [laughter]

I can’t remember… No, the premise is which of the numbers between 1 and 20 inclusive do you think most people are going to write down as one that will be chosen the least?

So clear. It’s so clear.

Do any of us feel strongly about the answer?

I feel like one was at the bottom last time. 17 was at the top. 17 is probably not on this board. And if it is, it’s possible, maybe… But one’s for sure going to be here. That’s just my logic. But I’d love to be wrong.

What do you think, Amy?

[00:54:03.04] Your guess is as good as mine.

Okay, I think we’re both – yeah, just go ahead.

Do you feel strongly about – what’d you say? 12, 17, 45, and what?

45? [laughs]

What are we going with?

Just one, I guess, right?

One.

Yeah, dial it in.

For the steal, did the most people think one would be the one that the most people chose would be the least chosen? [win alert] You stole it. The number two answer is one. 24 people thought one would be the one… Which means you steal a total of 58 points. It’s getting tight, y’all.

Give those points up to us.

Oh my goodness, look at that score going into the final round. Team zero, 206. Team one, 210. And the last round is double points.

This is a repeat of THAT Conference.

I know, I wasn’t going to jinx it.

Are you sweating?

No. I’m smiling.

You’re smiling, okay.

I’m sweating and smiling.

We could review the other ones that were chosen, but who cares? Let’s move to round seven.

Break: [00:55:20.12]

Alright, it’s time for another face-off. This goes Chris and Kball. We asked our audience, “What’s the first programming-related movie that comes to your mind?” Sorry, Kball, I know you don’t watch movies. I did not plan this. Chris can go first. Yes, Chris, a programming-related movie. There are five on the board, top five answers. What do you think?

Hackers.

Show us Hackers. [win alert] Number one answer, Hackers. 53 people said Hackers. That’s double points, to 106, and for the first time, I believe, team zero is playing. Ooh, this is looking bad for you, Amal. Okay, we go to Adam. There are five on the board. We have number one, so two through four is still out there.

This is number two. Who’s ready for number two?

We’re ready.

Swordfish.

Show us. [fail alert] Swordfish is not number two.

What?! You’ve gotta be kidding me.

I’ve seen that. I’ve seen that movie.

You’re gonna jinx us…

Uh-oh… This could be the all time choke job. [laughter] No pressure… I’m enjoying the heck out of this. Okay, Amy.

The Social Network.

The Social Network. Survey says… [win alert] Number four answer, the Social Network, with 14 responses, worth 28 points. Good guess, Amy.

That’s not about programming…

Yeah, I didn’t quite think that movie was ever about programming. It was more like “Here’s the lesson in vengeful deceit”, or like…

Programming-related, though…

And this is not about programming how?

And why you should trust nobody… Muhaha, you know…

It sounds like me with my code…

Yeah, that’s funny. That’s hilarious. Good job though, Amy.

Alright, Chris, back to you.

Jurassic Park.

Oh, my God.

That’s a good one.

It’s Unix. I know it.

That’s a really good one. [fail alert] Unfortunately, it’s not quite good enough. I loved that moment.

Adam, it’s all you.

Oh, but it’s not top of mind. There are three left. We have number one, Hackers, two and three are blank, number four, the Social Network, and number five is also blank. So here I thought we’d just pick them off one by one, but there’s a lot of movies that have subtle references that aren’t necessarily top of mind. He’s less confident this time around… Swordfish… [unintelligible 01:00:04.04] confidence…

Yeah, a little bit. I’m feeling down. Thinking, of course…

Can you be like one of those reasoning models that does its thinking out loud?

If I reasoned out loud, I would potentially help the team who may try to take me down.

Yeah, don’t leak anything.

Yeah, I’m not leaking, man.

I’m just trying to prompt-inject you. A few minutes later…

You know, it’s against my better judgment… I’m thinking the audience connects Ready Player One to programming somehow.

They are bankers… [laughter]

But I could be wrong.

Well, it’s time to tell. Is he right or wrong? Is Ready Player One one of the top five programming-related movies that comes to our listeners’ minds? [fail alert] It is not. He is wrong, and for the first time, team one gets to steal. And if they steal this, they steal the entire game, and Amal is totally justified. So you guys can confer. There’s three options out there, you’ve just got to hit one of them.

Okay, guys, guys, the Matrix, the Matrix, the Matrix, the Matrix, the Matrix.

I was thinking the Matrix the whole way.

The whole time. I was like – I didn’t even think about hackers or The Social Network. I was like “Matrix, Matrix.” Okay, should we do it? So there’s the Matrix, then there’s the Reloaded and Revolutions. I think we should just say the Matrix. I’m sure it’s on the board.

Yup. [unintelligible 01:01:31.09]

If you say all three, Jerod will give you all three.

Haah!

Okay, the Matrix, the Matrix, Revolutions, and the Matrix, Reloaded, I think.

Okay, so as of right now, team zero has 206 points, and team one has 210 points. Team zero won the round, they have 134 points scored already, they’re banked. However, if the Matrix is in the top five, team one will steal a round and steal a game and be winners, and Amal will not look like a fool for having declared her victory prematurely. What is going to happen? Is the Matrix on the board? [win alert] It is!

[01:02:10.15] Oh, yeah…

Number two.

Nice, nice. Awesome.

The steal is successful. So 182 points go back to team one.

Holy crap, that’s a domination there…

I know, we’ve dominated…

It looks like a domination, even though it was very tight.

Oh yeah, yeah, that’s true. It really was. It’s all this stealing, you know?

I prefer to be in the stealing side, because I think the advantage is to you.

Do you guys want to see the other movies on the board?

Yes.

I’m going to guess the Imitation Game.

Nope.

I was thinking V for Vendetta, and then I realized that that was actually – that was just how the Anonymous logo was born, versus like… That’s actually not about programming at all.

No.

Tron? War Games?

I’m going to guess Her.

…Sneakers, Her…

Okay, well, I heard them all. I heard them all. So Sneakers was number five, with five people. You also said War Games, Nick.

Wow…!

Nice.

Honorable mentions - Tron… These all made less than five people. Tron, The Net, Swordfish got three, Adam… Very close. Her, Ex Machina, The Imitation Game, Gattaca, Pirates of the Silicon Valley… And of course, Silicon Valley, the TV show, which I can only assume was Adam.

I didn’t take the survey.

Adam, I sure hope you didn’t take the survey…

And it was TV, it wasn’t a movie. I would have guessed that if I’d have thought it was TV.

That’s true. There was a lot of TV shows on there. I’m like “Do y’all read the actual thing?”

Yeah. I was sticking to – I guess they don’t follow the rules, so we could have actually not followed the rules, too.

Alright. Well, for our very first game of Friendly Feud, with 392 points, Nick, Amal, and K-Ball, y’all win. Congratulations. [applause] Here’s your fake applause.

I feel so – like, this is the best welcome back hug ever, is to win… Although I did call people basic, but I didn’t mean it in a bad way.

You did call them basic…

I thought you meant Basic programming.

I called them bankers. I think that’s worse.

I just meant like I have a… Universal brain, that’s like, you know…

You’re supposed to say great minds think alike, but you said “All these people are basic.” [laughter]

Oh, my God… That’s not what I meant. Yeah.

Well, everybody, thanks for playing. Normally, we’ll give our winning team a chance to like say a speech, or shout something out… Do you guys have anything to say, or are you all tuckered out?

I mean, I’m going to continue to channel my 11-year-old and like the Gen Z or alpha or whatever slang, which is – he did this at some point when we just got destroyed in a video game… He says “Y’all got cooked, and I’m the chef. Noodles…!”

[laughs]

Oh, my gosh…

Dang.

Wow.

That’s harsh.

We now will just go around in the house and something’s going on and we’ll just be like “Noodles…!” [laughter]

Chris, will you be doing noodles and then slurping in with your kids?

I might try that, yeah.

Okay, cool.

That might go over pretty well.

I mean, y’all have heard the generational evolution of things, right? So back when we were young, things were “the s**t.” Then at some point it was like “Oh, that’s fire.” And then it was like “I’m going to cook you.” And then it’s like “You got eaten. I’m going to eat you.” And pretty soon it’s going to be back to where we were at the beginning, and it’s coming out again.

Oh, I didn’t even think about that. Oh, my God…

You’re not “THE s**t”, you’re “MY s**t”.

Right…

There you go. There you go. That moves it around. But it’s like, that’s hot, that’s fire… Oh, that’s cooking. Oh, they were eaten. And it is evolving back towards where it was when we were all young.

And they did “sick”, too.

Sick, yeah.

Does Ohio mean good or is that bad?

[01:06:14.10] Does Ohio mean good?

Only when compared to Nebraska.

Ah… Nick, why do you set people up to get burned, to get cooked?

That’s the thing, they say that’s Ohio… Right? I don’t know…

…to get noodles.

Have you all played this game, though? Those of you with kids who are in that preteen or teen thing, where you get a list of the sayings that they do, and you get them to sit there with water in their mouths and you just deadpan the sayings, and see how long they can last without busting up and splurting all the water out?

I think that’s the new… What do you call that? That’s the hot wings chicken show, or whatever. What am I thinking about?

Hot Ones.

Hot ones, yes. It’s like a variation of that.

I like the one with the tortillas and the water in their mouth. Y’all seen that one?

Tortilla slap challenge? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. They slap each other.

It’s hilarious.

Yeah, there was one going around where somebody – they were doing that and the guy just slapped himself, and the other guy busted up.

Yeah. I don’t know, my sister’s six and a half years younger than me, and we’re both in the same decade now, but every time I hang out with her, I feel like I come back with such a, like, 50 new vocabulary words and terms… It’s amazing how old and out of touch I am.

Can you share one for us?

I don’t know anything… I mean, this one isn’t even new I’ll share, but I used it recently in a sentence, and then someone else at work started to use it. She was like “Oh, this thing is so clutch”, you know? She’s like “Oh my God, yeah, that’s so clutch.” And I’m like “Oh, you’re using clutch in a different way than I’ve used it”, you know?

Was she showing you her small hand purse?

No, no, it was not a clutch in that way. It was that it’s handy, it’s useful… “Oh, that tip is so clutch.” I was like “Oh, interesting.” But yeah, no, I mean, English is a fascinating language, and from my understanding, one of the reasons why it’s dominated the world besides like colonization and all of that jazz is it’s able to absorb other languages very easily.

It’s malleable.

Yeah, very malleable. And it takes in – it’s very flexible rules-wise. If anybody else speaks other languages, you know how English feels so much more aerated than other languages. And so yeah, it’s pretty cool.

It is cool. Somebody in our Zulip was hating on English the other day, and I was just like – I was just going to hop in there and be like “I love English.”

English is the best. Yeah.

But I didn’t want to be like that, so I didn’t say it… But I’m saying it now. English is awesome.

Yeah.

We take other words and we just use them.

But it’s also very morphable, right?

It makes it hard to learn.

I listen to my children as preteens now, and I wonder if I speak English. It doesn’t seem to be the same English they’re speaking.

[laughs]

Exactly. Exactly. And then there’s pidgin English. There’s actually official pidgin English’es too, all over the Caribbean, and many parts of Africa.

And JavaScript.

Right. Funny. Yeah, that too. But you know what? I will say this… Certain things are very hard to say in English succinctly. I’d say like English isn’t maybe the best when it comes to the richness of vocabulary. I think other languages do a better job at like – there’s like 50 words for one thing in certain languages, depending on the context, and whatever… And that richness and depth of language is kind of missing from English, I feel. It takes many words to say something sometimes, and in other languages you just have to say a word.

For some people more than others.

Yes, yes. Like myself. Like myself.

I was just thinking, I love how long it’s taken her to explain this.

Well, you know, I’m… Deductive? Inductive communicator?

Amal -v. Go.

Yeah, -v. -verbose.

There you go.

Give us all the words. I think my favorite new word to say or to use is like “Spam those buttons.” We play a lot of Switch, and we’re like spamming the buttons… That’s a cool reuse that’s like on it, but makes it fun again. It’s not like a bad connotation. It’s a fun connotation. And like “sigma”. I have no idea what it means, but it’s cool. It sounds cool. It’s like, that sounds cool.

And Rizzler.

My seven-year-old doesn’t call things dumb or stupid. He only says “derpy”.

Derpy?

Something’s derpy? Does that come from like herpa derpy?

It came from the derp meme. The Mega Man or whatever, with the eyes…

Alright, we’ve got to end this show, because we are showing our age…

I thought it was over.

Thanks guys for playing Friendly Feud with us. It was fun. We did ask way more questions than just these, so we can play some more games without having to do more surveys… So stay tuned for more Friendly Feud in the future. Future Friendly Feud. Bye, friends.

Bye, friends. I’m showing you my hand, see? I’m non-threatening. Bye, friends.

Well, stop threatening people.