JS Party – Episode #235

Frontend Feud: ShopTalk vs CSS Podcast

with Chris & Dave vs Una & Adam

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What’s this? A Frontend Feud! The ShopTalk guys return to defend their championship over Syntax against new contenders: Una and Adam from The CSS Podcast!



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Notes & Links

📝 Edit Notes


1 00:00 Opener
2 00:54 Sponsor: Square
3 02:31 Intro
4 03:10 Meet our guests
5 06:56 Round 1
6 14:18 Round 2
7 21:31 Sponsor: Sentry
8 22:10 Round 3
9 29:45 Round 4
10 38:24 Round 5
11 46:09 Round 6
12 52:51 Winners!
13 53:10 Shout outs
14 55:35 Goodbye
15 56:29 Outro


📝 Edit Transcript


Play the audio to listen along while you enjoy the transcript. 🎧

Hello, and welcome back, friends, to Frontend Feud. I am Jerod, and I am ready to host an excellent game. We have two spectacular teams. We have the returning champs, Shoptalk Show. What’s up, guys?

Hey, hey, hey!

Heeeey, glad to be here!

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s gonna be awesome!

Of course, Dave and Chris joined by our very own Amelia, back with Shoptalk, ready to defend that championship.

We have the carry. I feel real good about today. To all the Shoptalk maniacs out there, we’re doing this for you! [laughter]

[03:55] We’re basically the Ken Jennings of feuding about web technology.

There you go. Well played. Notice what we did not hear is team Syntax, the losers; no offense, Syntax, but… [laughter] Not invited back. In their place, the contender this week are friends from the CSS Podcast, Una and Adam. What’s up?!



We’re stoked, yeah. We’re gonna give them a run for their money. [We’re gonna take you out in the second round] [laughs]

I’d like to know that they’re paid to know about CSS… [laughter]

As opposed to having a CSS blog site…

I am fully intimidated, so… Yeah.

Yes, professionals versus amateurs over here.

I don’t know what I’m doing here… We’ve got these defending champs, we’ve gotta at least give them a good fight.

Well, adjoining your team is our very own Nick Nisi, who may or may not have won this game last time he played… He can’t remember, but he was there.

I can’t remember…

We think he was there. And he’s here now.


Cannot confirm, nor deny.

Welcome, Nick. We’re gonna kick some butt.

So this is the game of responding to the question not with necessarily the correct answer, but the most popular answer. So we have surveyed JS Party listeners, and we have six rounds of statements which they’ve answered in a text field. They can write in anything they want, and so they have done just that, and we have normalized and scrubbed those suckers up, put them into groups, and you all are going to try to match the most popular answers on the board.

So we’ve split into two teams, there will be a face-off, an interface-off, if you will, each round, where one member of each team “steps forward” and has a chance to guess first. The person during the face-off that matches the highest response, their team wins that board, and they then play that round.

When you play the round, you have to try to match every single answer on the board. You have three deaths that you can die… Actually, two, because if you die the third death, then you’re done… At which point the other team has the chance to steal.

When you steal, you can confer with your team. You can all decide on what you’re gonna guess for the steal. When you’re not stealing, you cannot confer. So you’re on your own to make a guess.

After six rounds, the team with the most points wins. Any questions?

[06:18] Is there a buzzer? Can we buzz in?

There will not be a buzzer. We will take turns instead, just because real-time issues… And so even when we do the face-off, we will let one team guess first, and then the other team guess second, and we’ll just rotate teams each round, so it’s fair.

Oh… I was really looking forward to racing somebody for *buzz!!*

You can still buzz. You can buzz all you want. It just won’t affect the endgame. [laughter]

Una, it’s Cmd+Q, actually, is the buzzer.

Oh…! [laughter] You know it’s Cmd+Q actually, it’s the buzzer… [laughter]

Yeah, that’s the buzzer, yeah. [laughter]

Nice… Nice. Okay, so we are ready to play. We’ll begin round one. Round one will be Dave versus Una. Step right up.

She’s still, so she did not fall for the Cmd+Q…

She buzzed in, she has to answer.


We will pull up the game board, everybody can see that…

Oh, this is fancy.

You had a budget increase for that… [laughter]

This is great.

This is professional here. So we’ll start with Dave, since they’re defending champs. There are six answers on the board. The question is “Name your favorite programming language that is not HTML, CSS or JS.” You’re trying to match that number one answer, if possible. Dave, what do you think?

I’m gonna go with the cool kid Rust.

Show us Rust. [win alert] Number three answer, with 19 responses. So you’re on the board, but Una now has the chance to match higher. If she can pick number one or number two, then the CSS Podcast plays round one. Una, what do you think?

Okay, so this is a favorite programming language, and I’m gonna try to go with one that maybe more people are familiar with in the web community…

I’m gonna try Java.

Okay, show us Java. [fail alert] I’m sorry…

I thought you had it…

Good guess, good guess. Unfortunately, Java did not make the top six. The threshold, by the way, for being on the board is you must have at least five responses. So certainly there were people that said Java, just not five or more. Okay.

I mean, Java made me cry, but some people like it…

Yeah, it said “favorite”, so Java definitely not…

That’s true, that’s true.

“Favorite” is a tall order, isn’t it?

I was thinking popular.

Okay, so Shoptalk wins the board, that means Shoptalk gets to play this round. Dave started, so now we will go to Chris… Name your favorite programming language that is not HTML, CSS or JS.


Good answer, good answer, good answer…!

That was my second one.

Okay, did Python make the board? [win alert] And where does it land? Ohh, number one answer!

Oh, I should’ve gone with that…!

33 responses. So you guys are off to a great start. Slots one and three and taken; two, four, five and six are still on the board, and we go to Amelia.

Gosh, Python’s such a good one…

That’s right; it’s like the data analysts’ favorite, right?

I feel like this is gonna fall into the same slot as Java, but I’m gonna go with C++.

Good answer, good answer…!

Show us C++… [fail alert] Sorry, that did not make the board.

Good try, good try, good try…

Alright, you have one strike against you… You’ve died one death, and now it’s Dave’s turn.

Okay. I’ve got a few to choose from, but I’m gonna bias this based on the Changelog audience, and say Go, because you have a Go podcast.

Way to steal my answer, Dave…

That’s a good one.

[10:02] Oh, sorry. I had other ones, I could give you that one…

A very targeted answer, at our targeted audience… Does it pay off? [win alert] Yes, it does.

Go, number four answer. 11 people like Go.

Okay, we have slots two, five and six still available, and we’re back at Chris.

Well, the trajectory leads us to Ruby here. Let me say Ruby.

Okay, show us Ruby. [fail alert]


Not so fast, my friend, not so fast…


That surprises me. I would have thought Ruby is on there.

That also surprises me. It definitely was answered, but not five people, so… It has been falling out of favor. That’s two strikes…

I’m gonna go again.

Go back to Amelia.

Chris can go again. [laughter] Oh, man… I’m totally blanking here. I’m gonna go with something that I know people will say, but maybe not a lot of people… Don’t kill me again, please. Lisp…

Ooh, okay…


It’s not a good one.

[laughs] Not a good one…

There’s gonna be some nerds…

Okay. The question is how many nerds are there? Are there five nerds? [fail alert] No…

Not enough nerds.

There are not five nerds.

I’m curious, are syntaxes – anyway…

So we have the number one answer, Python, the number three answer, Rust, the number four answer, Go, and there’s three more still on the board. So team CSS Podcast, all you have to do is match any of those to steal all of these points. So you can confer amongst your team, discuss what you think is our listeners’ favorite programming language that’s not HTML, CSS or JS.

There’s an obvious answer here…

I have an idea…

It starts with the letter P?

It starts with a T, and it has an S in there…

Okay, so yeah, is TS gonna be available? It’s like JavaScript…

It’s semantically different, and people argue over that, so I guarantee it’s up there.

I’m sure it’s listed… Yeah, I think it’s in there, too.

That’s not fair…!

I’m not happy about this…

I also was wondering about Node, because that’s also JavaScript.

Also not fair…!


Yeah, I don’t know…

So PHP, TypeScript…

Remember that it just depends on what they answer. There’s no rules for what you can answer. Whatever they answer, that’s what’s in there.

Well, that’s true…

I’m curious if SQL is in there…

Interesting. I also am curious if there’s like mobile developers that listen to the podcast. Maybe like Swift.

Yeah, Swift or Kotlin are on my list.

I feel like TypeScript is pretty popular, but I just don’t know if that’s far enough from JavaScript. This question is a little uncertain…

Given the audience, I think it is.

TS is a safe bet. What about Sass? So no CSS; if we’re allowing TypeScript, do we allow Sass?

I think it’s the same thing though, like Sass is to CSS, TypeScript to JavaScript…

I would agree in principle they’re the same… We’re gonna need a final steal answer. What do you all think? What are you going with here?

Should we just go with TypeScript?

I think LESS. [laughter]

TypeScript is your final answer?

Let’s do it. Let’s lock it in.

Okay. Did our listeners love TypeScript? [win alert]

Oh…! Pizzas!

It’s number two.

Number two answer, with 20.


That’s not fair…

It’s good to remember there’s no rules. You could answer Jurassic Park, right?

That’s right. But you have to get at least four other people to also answer Jurassic Park for it to matter.

Okay, okay.

So we will give those points to team CSS Podcast. They scored 83 on round one. Oh, shoot. I did it wrong; let me try that again. Hit this button instead. Yes, much better. And we’ll also reveal number five, which was C#.

Nine people.

So close with C++.

Number six, which is blasphemy – I mean, PHP… I’m just kidding, I have enjoyed PHP…

Yeah, of course. I had PHP on my list, but…

A couple of honorable mentions - two people mentioned SQL, so there you go, Adam… And one person said “That’s the only other language I know.” One person said “I don’t know any other languages.” One person said CoffeeScript, which was just…

[14:01] Yeahh– I mean, what? [laughter]

And one person said jQuery, which… Yeah, a little bit out there… But one person loves jQuery.

52 people said Spanish… [laughter]

Alright, that takes us to round two, so next we will have Chris and Adam facing off. Step right up, guys. Round two. Adam gets to guess first, because this is the second round, and the Shoptalk team guessed first the first round. Name someone who helps many people learn HTML, CSS and/or JavaScript. Top five answers on the board. Adam, who helps other people learn these things?

Who is Jen Simmons?

Good answer, good answer…

Show us Jen Simmons. [fail alert] I am sorry, Jen did not make the top five. Okay, Chris, you’re up.

The audience is your podcast. I could say your name, you know?

That would only apply if I actually taught them anything, which is not the case.

Kevin Powell. We’ll how popular Mr. Kevin has gotten.

Okay. Show us Kevin Powell.

Have you seen his subs lately? It’s crazy.

I have not. [fail alert] Okay, so - first time I think this has ever happened. Nobody matched in the first… So we go back to Adam and we just do it again.

Who is Web Bos?

Show us Wes Bos. [win alert] Number one answer, Wes Bos. 49 of our participants. That’s a lot of people, so congrats to Wes. He’s been helping lots of folks.


And Chris now has a chance to steal – oh no, you don’t. That’s the number one answer, so Adam wins the board. I was like, “Hold on a second…” And team CSS Podcast gets to play round two. So we have Wes Bos at the top, we have a couple who are not on the list, and now Nick Nisi, who do you think people said helped them learn these technologies?

Hm… I’m gonna go the other half, I’m gonna go Scott Tolinski.

Show us Scott Tolinski. [fail alert] Sorry, Scott…

Poor Scott, look at that…

Scott made the honorable mentions.

This question is gonna… [laughter]

We turn out to Una.

Alright, so I feel like because the audience is the JS Party podcast, it’s gonna be leaning on people who have helped folks learn JavaScript.

I’m gonna go with you, Jerod.

You’re gonna go with me. Okay, let’s see, do people learn things from me? [laughter]

Your podcast.

[win alert]


Oh, JS Party, number three.

This was a lumping in – some people said me, some people said JS Party, some people said Nick. So I just combined all this together and said “Yes, JS Party is on the list.” It makes sense, it’s our podcast and it’s our audience answering the questions, so good job, Una, for identifying JS Party as someone who helps other people learn.

Adam, back to you. You have one strike, and you have three answers left, slots two, four and five.

Dan Abramov.

Dan Abramov. Fine answer, fine answer. Was it on the board? [fail alert]

Oh, wow…

I’m kind of glad, because otherwise this would have just been “Who is cool in React?” [laughter]


It still might be…

It still might be, yeah.

I will say that both Dan and Scott Tolinski were mentioned multiple times, but not at the threshold level. Okay, so two strikes… Nick, you’re back up again.


And you have to hit this one or you’re done.

Oh, man… Okay.

You’ve got this, Nick.

You know, I’m gonna go Chris Coyier.

It’s a good one.

You took my answer, man…

You’re just kissing up.

Totally stole my thing.

Do people learn things from Chris Coyier? [win alert] They sure do. Number two answer, Chris Coyier, with 13 people.

That should count for our team.

Look at the fall from Wes though… Come on, man…

I know, Wes is dominant. [laughter]

So we’ve got to keep going, team. What have you got?!

[18:04] Yup, keep going. So we’re back to Una. You have to get that number four and five slot. There’s two left on the board, and you have one strike left.

Alright, I’m gonna go with someone who I’ve definitely learned a lot from… Sarah Drasner.

Ooh, clutch.

Good answer. Show us Sarah. [fail alert] Unfortunately she did not make the list. Alright, we have now an opportunity to steal. Currently, team CSS Podcast has 69 points in this round…


But y’all can confer and you can steal those points, plus what’s left on the board; there’s slots four and five. You have two answers that will match. What do y’all think?

My only other one is maybe Josh Comeau, who has been killing it recently.

Oh yeah, he’s huge. That’s a good one. Or you go old-school with like Zeldman, or Eric Meyer, Rachel Andrew, you know…

Kent C. Dodds…

Oh, that’s a good one.

Addy Osmani…

Gosh, this is hard.

Can I open my RSS reader?

I like Kent. I feel like everyone knows Kent.

I feel like – I don’t know, maybe he’s up there just from a React testing… I mean, who else are you gonna learn it from?

I’m totally down with that one, about the Josh idea, too.

Yeah. Your pick, Amelia.

I think Kent has a pretty large name at this point.

Let’s lock it.

Let’s do it. Kent. C. Dodds! Let’s hear that ding, hear that ding.

Okay. I need to make a confession. So I know that Kent was on the list, but I do not have him in my list. So I must have missed him in the final answers. He was right there, he was in the list, but he’s not on the list. So I’m gonna give you guys another guess, because he’s not actually on the board. Somehow he got lost in translation.

Was that a data entry error?

Yes, it was a data entry error. Or we can pause and I can go look it up and refresh my board and we can do that.

No, that’s alright…

Jerod here. I looked it up and Kent did have 11 responses. So he would have been in third place. Sorry about that, Kent. Alright, back to the show.

Guess another one. We’ll give you one more guess.

This is rigged. [laughter]

Well, now I feel terrible.

I mean, Josh might be–

Let’s just do it.

I like Josh.

Aww…. [fail alert] Well, I thought it was a good answer. [laughter]

I thought he was leading us to pick that…

The steal fails. I’ll have to go back to my notes and see where Kent fell into the line.

So we missed the steal.

So CSS Pod picks up those 69; we’re gonna add those there. Let’s look at the final two answers.

It doesn’t look good.

Someone who helps many people. FreeCodeCamp/Quincy Larson. Six votes.

We’re heading for a shutout here?

Well, it’s a text field, so whatever they type in… And the last one, number five, Brad Traversy, the popular YouTuber.

Doesn’t matter… Jurassic Park… [laughter]

Five responses. Okay, so… CSS Podcast dominant thus far, with 152 points after round two.

It’s all luck.

But don’t worry, there’s more rounds to play. We head to round three, and we face off Amelia versus Nick. Step right up.

[21:19] to [22:26]

The question for this round - which emoji do you use most often in commit messages? [laughter] We’re back to team Shoptalk.

That’s a great question.

I love this.

And we have - Amelia gets to guess first. What do you think our listeners responded with on this, Amelia?

That’s a really tough one. They’re all tough.

I will say, on this one I did some groupings. So if you don’t hit it exact, but you’re in the same ballpark, we will also match. Because there’s a lot of variations.

I can’t tell if people went with jokey ones, or serious ones, but I’m gonna go with grimace… Because I use that very often.

That was my first thought.

That’s a good one. Good one.

We’re gonna learn a lot about each other on this one.

Show me grimace. [fail alert]

What?! Not even on the list? [laughs]

Is that the teeth one, with the –

Yeah, yikes.

That one looks like a smile to me.

It’s the best emoji.

I used the today already. It’s early.

Clearly, our listeners are more optimistic than our panel here… Nick, what do you think people said when we asked them “Which emoji do you use most often in your commit messages?”

Hm… You said you were grouping them, so I’m gonna go “The one with the yellow face.” [laughter]

I’m sorry, but we’re not grouping them –

Good answer, good answer…!

Zoom in… [laughter] Enhance…

I’m going to go with “None.”

Ooh… Show us “None.” [win alert] Number one answer!

Outside the box!


Who are these people…?!

I know, right?

Professionals, that’s who.

That’s not how my brain works…

Professionals… In fact, one person said “I don’t use emoji commit messages, you heathens.” [laughter] So they were not just saying “None”, they were mad about it.

[24:10] 42 people were like “I reject the premise of this entire question.” [laughter]

Which is almost half.

This is true.

Yeah, they’re like “What kind of tacos do you like?” and they’re like “Waffles.” [laughter]

Yeah, “I would never eat a taco.”

I was gonna say one, but I kept hearing Chris say Jurassic Park right in my ear, so…

Oh, that is just the Jurassic Park of answers. This is great. Okay.

Well, with that, Nick takes the board for team CSS Podcast…

Yeah, way to go, Nick.

…another move of dominance. And we go to Una. Now, there’s still six more on the board. There are seven total answers, so lots to pick from here. What do you think, Una?

Alright, I frequently will use the ta-da emoji, or like the one with the confetti coming out of a little red thing.

Right. Alright, show us ta-da.

The Hurray. Ta-da!

[win alert] That’s grouped into the celebrations emoji, which is the ta-da, the celebrate face, the…

Party horn?

Those were all of my guesses right there. [laughter]

This second one was my second guess.

The raised hands, and then that one with like the confetti opening up out of the two pinecones, or what are those things…? Shells? I don’t know.

It’s a Japanese ornament that opens.

Yeah. Good job, very nice. So now number one and number six are taken. We go to Adam.

Nice. So the celebrations are definitely – you know, after your 20th commit, trying to get your GitHub Action to finally do the thing, you’re like “Huzzah! It works!”

[laughs] “It works! Finally!”

I’m gonna go with – well, I’ve got a few here… I’m picking fire.

Hm, that’s a good answer.

It’s a good one.

Show us fire. [fail alert]


I thought that was a good answer as well. No fire.

People are too – there’s nobody that confident.

Alright, back to Nick. You have one strike.

Okay, I’m going to go with the green square with the white check in it.

That’s a good one.

I use that one all the time. Do our listeners also use it? [fail alert] No, they do not.



There are no other emoji.

Good luck, everybody…

I will say, I’m looking at the answers and you’re missing some pretty obvious ones. No offense. But we’re back to Una.


Okay, I’m gonna go with the poop emoji.

It’s gotta be on the list.

Please, show me poop. I never thought I’d say that on a podcast… [laughter] [win alert] Yes. Poop, number three answer, with nine responses. Alright, so you’re hanging in there… Back to Adam.

Alright… I’ve got two that I think are good runner-ups. I’m going to go with cry.

[laughs] That’s a good one.

Simple tear, double tears, you know…

Show us cry. [fail alert]


I guess there’s just so many emoji to pick from, it’s tough to actually narrow down. Okay, so you have 58 points, but now team Shoptalk can steal. They have lots of opportunities. There’s still four responses.

Okay, we can talk about this, right?

Match any and you guys steal these points.

Isn’t there that Git convention? People even put Git hooks in there that say “You cannot. You have to” it has to say “Fix colon” or it has to say “Design colon”, or whatever.

Conventional commits, right? Isn’t that what it’s called?

Conventional commit? I see a lot of like lipstick, or nail polish… Like, “I’m just making this pretty.”

I like the nail polish.

Or the wrench, when the tool – for fixes, is what I was thinking

Oh, yeah, yeah.

But I don’t know…

Yeah, there’s a whole thing for that, isn’t there? Like, emoji commits, or whatever.

Nail polish is good for design, you know…

Nail polish is the only one I could think–

I feel like that covers all of it. I can’t think of anything else other than cry-laugh… But my guesses haven’t been going well…

Ha-haa… Okay, so what’s the consensus then? Nail polish?

Yeah, nail polish.

Nail polish.

Nail polish.

It’s gonna be great. Number two answer.

Alright, show us for the steal “Nail polish.” [fail alert]

No way…!

What are these answers?!

[28:08] This was a tough round.

Aliens answered this one.

Tough round. Alright, do you guys wanna know – let’s score these…

Still hanging out at zero points…

Yes. CSS Pod – you’re gonna have to use that double-round to really come back, because right now they are…

Smokin’ us.

…at 210 to 0.

Let’s look at the answers that were still on the board… Smiles. People like the smiles, guys.

Just the classic. We should have gone classic, yeah.

Yeah, classic smiles. How about shrugs?

Thumbs up was in here…

The shrugs is pretty –

Shrug is a good one.

Yeah, that’s a good one.

Ship it, rocket… The rocket…

Ship it…!

Ship that sucker…

I was thinking the ship as another…

And then the classic, age-old thumbs up. You just got the thumbs up.

Yeah, the thumbs up, yeah.

I feel bad about myself…

So… Rough round. This is going tough. This is not Shoptalk’s day… [laughter]

Sorry, team…

This is a real hard one, don’t feel bad.

Hey, we’ll get a point, everybody. Don’t worry. [laughter]

We are only halfway through the game. There’s three more rounds, so anything can happen. I mean, you win the next three rounds…

Beginner’s luck.

Rocket is just wrong. You don’t put the rocket in the commit message, because you don’t know yet. Your CI hasn’t passed yet. You put the rocket after the CI passes, as a comment.

That’s a comment.

That’s a comment.

That is a good follow-up.

I think people didn’t read the question.

Well, most people didn’t like emojis in commit messages.

That’s true. 42 were like “Seriously, guys. Take the emojis out of your commit messages.”

42 people are major bummers. [laughter]

Like, where’s hearts?

Major bummers.

No fun at work…

This was one that had a lot of one points. A lot of people had this one thing as their favorites… But okay, let’s move to the next round. This is the inverted round. This round works a little bit differently. There’s no face-off, it’s just back and forth between the two teams. You’re trying to match the board, but actually the lower answers score more points. So you do not want the most popular answers, you want the bottom of the board.

So there are six answers on the board, and the statement that we had them respond to was “Name a website that’s frequented by software developers.” So we will start with Shoptalk, and we’ll start with Dave. “Name a website frequented by software developers.”

Yeah, I mean… The goal is not to get the number one answer. [laughter]

Unless you want some points.

I think it’ll be middle of the pack… I think Dev.to.

Oh, that’s good. Because it’s not gonna be like the top answer, but it’s up there.

Okay, show us Dev.to. [fail alert]

That means it’s low though… That’s good… [laughter]

Yeah, you got the spirit of it right. You got the spirit of it right.

Yeah, good for me.

Alright, we go back now to CSS Podcast. Una, your turn.

Okay, a website frequented by software developers, but it should be the top one.

But not too much.

I will mention that the top one also scores you points, it’s just not as many points. So like if you’re sitting at zero, you might go for it, I don’t know…


But you’re sitting at 210, so whatever you like.

Well, Dev.to wasn’t on there, so that’s interesting… What about something outside the box, like Medium? That has some articles for developers…

Okay. Show us Medium. [fail alert]

Too low.

I think there was one person that said Medium, so you’re not totally off…

Get us a point, Chris… [laughs]

Is it back to me?

Now it’s to Chris.

I’m just going to pick something safe. We’ll just say Stack Overflow. It’s gonna be on the six

Oh, yeah.

Show us Stack Overflow. [win alert] Number one answer…


65 respondents, which gives you five points… But hey, you’ve got five points.

We’ve got five points!

Do we just immediately get them? No, we have to steal –

Yup, I’ve just added those right now, so you’ve got them right there. Now we go to Adam. Your turn.

Alright, I’m going to choose Twitter.

Out of the box, Jurassic Park pick. [laughter]

Do developers hang out on Twitter?

That’s a good one, honestly.

[win alert] And I will say it is the bottom answer…

Oh, dang it, Adam!

Yes, Adam! A-dam! A-dam!

You score 30 points for your team. Very well played. We go back to Shoptalk and Amelia.

I think middle of the board is gonna be like MDN.

Good answer, good answer, good answer…

Show us MDN. [win alert]

Number two answer, worth ten points. 22 people said it. You get ten points for that. It’s a good answer. And we go to Nick, back with CSS Podcast.

What is less popular than MDN, but more frequently visited than Twitter… W3Schools.

Show us W3Schools. [fail alert] I think one troll said W3Schools. In addition to yourself, Nick.

What about w3.org though…?

Alright, back to Shoptalk and back to Dave.

I’m gonna say GitHub.

You stole my answer.

Do you think that developers go ot GitHub? Yes, they do. [win alert] Number three answer.

See, we’ll do the top of the cake, and then…

Going down the list.

12 answers. It gets you 15 points. I’ll award those to you. Go back here, and we go to Una. There’s now two slots open. Slots four and five. So to review - number one, Stack Overflow. Number two, MDN. Number three, GitHub. Blank, blank. Number six, Twitter. What have you got?

Oh, man… I was thinking the Gits, but now I’ve gotta go alternative paths. So so far none of these really are blogs. We’ve got documentation, we’ve got question asking, we’ve got doing productive work, we’ve got learning things… Is there a blog on here? There probably is. Okay, what is a big JavaScript blog though? I’m just gonna go with what’s on top of my head; what about Smashing Magazine?

Show us Smashing Magazine. [fail alert]

I wasn’t sure…

Not quite there. Okay, Chris…

I was kind of thinking Patreon.com/shoptalk… [laughter]

Throw you a bone after this…?

That’ll get you access to the Discord, and everyone knows that’s a really great place to be, in the D-D-D-Discord, so…

We’ll take a google shout-out at web.dev.

Show us web.dev. [fail alert] That was in the honorable mentions, but didn’t quite make the top six. So now to Adam.

What is YouTube?

Oh, YouTube. That’s a good one.

Whooow! Jurassic Park answer.

What is YouTube? [fail alert]

It’s a tough one.

Not a website.

That’s surprising.

Discerning developers use Vimeo. [laughter]

In retrospect, one of these will be very obvious, though one will be slightly less so. Amelia?

I don’t know what to do with that hint… [laughter] It doesn’t make me feel good about it.

What websites do software developers frequent?

I was gonna say CSS-Tricks, because I use it very often.

Good answer, good answer…

Good answer! Hell yeah!

Still? [fail alert]

Weak! Wrong! [laughter]


CSS-Tricks was an honorable mention. Alright, back to Nick…

Wow. Can I specify specifically the Flexbox on CSS-Tricks? [laughter]

Number one answer?

I think I’m out of ideas here. Are there other websites?

There’s no more websites, no…

There’s a few left.

One is very obvious…

There’s at least two websites left out there.

It’s pretty much just that Space Jam one…

Can I go again…?

Space Jam… [laughter]

It’s Space Jam and Alibaba. I think those are kind of the last ones…

Let’s see… There is one that’s very obvious… I’m going to say npm.

Hm… Do JS Party listeners frequent npm? [fail alert]

That was a good answer though.

Good answer, good answer. Tough, tough to match what people are thinking. We’re gonna go back over to Dave on Shoptalk.

[36:07] Oh, my gosh… Okay. We’ve got Stack Overflow, we’ve got MDN, we’ve got GitHub, and then people do other stuff, not YouTube, and then they do Twitter. I’m gonna just do like Amazon.com, I don’t know… I don’t know.

Something Amazon-related.

Let’s see if the big ones, the big obvas. This is my Jurassic Park answer.

So Amazon, final answer?

[fail alert] Okay… Una?

Okay, I think I know it. I’m feeling good.

Okay, okay, okay…

I believe that a website frequented by software developers is google.com.

Do you think people who are searching for things like answers to software questions might go to google.com?

Just a hunch…

[win alert]

Dang it!

That’s the obvious. Oh, shoot! Hey, Jerod here again… At this point I clicked the wrong thing. I thought it was Google, it was actually Hacker News, revealing that as a correct answer. I quickly clicked it again to flip it back over, but it was too late.


What?! [laughter]

I guess Hacker News… Is it Hacker News? [laughter]

Hold on, hold on… Slow down… I’ve gotta give team CSS Podcast the points for Google. They get 25 points. And due to my slip-up and the whole Kent C. Dodds situation, I’m gonna award team Shoptalk 20 points for their excellent answer of Hacker News!


Thank you…

Good job, Chris!

It feels good.

Yeah, good job, Chris.

I was gonna go with Slack, so I would have got it wrong, you know?

We almost lost our 200-point lead.

A couple more honorable mentions were CSS-Tricks, as I said, Reddit, W3Schools and Slack were the other honorable mentions.

Hm. Reddit, yeah.

Okay, that brings us to the end of the inverted round. That’s round four. There’s two rounds left, and after four rounds the CSS Podcast leads with 265 points, Shoptalk now - hey, you’re cooking. You’ve got 50, so you’re on the board and you’re ready to play round five. Here we go!

[38:20] to [38:29]

We will have a face-off. I think we’re back to Dave and Una facing off. We asked developers to name a place outside of your house where you like to code/work. There are six answers on the board. We’ll start with Una this time.

Alright, power of the space shirt, I’m gonna be channeling.

I like to code at coffee shops.

Show us coffee shops. [win alert] The number one answer.

Can’t beat that!

So Dave does not get an opportunity. CSS Podcast plays the round. You have the number one, and there are five left. Alright, Adam.

This is really weirdly hard. I’m trying to – oh, what’s the popular name for these…? There’s like a brand of them, they’re work lofts where you can rent out a little space…

Oh, like WeWork?


Table talk, table talk…

Oh, sorry, I was trying to help with the description…

[laughs] She was trying to help. That’s exactly what table talk is, is trying to help. [laughs]


We’ll let them have it though. The answer was WeWork?

[fail alert]

Oh, would that be grouped in with co-working spaces generally? Probably…

So that’s not a thing.

It’s not a popular one. Alright, Nick, that’s one strike against you…

That’s bad for the co-working industry… [laughter]

Okay, a place outside of your house where you like to code/work… I’m gonna say work. [laughter]

Excuse me?

Like, the office?

Like, your office.

Oh, at your office. I thought you were just throwing the question back at me. “Where do I like to work? Work!” The office. Do people like to work at their offices? [win alert] Yes, they do. That is answer number three. I’m treading very slowly now on my flips…

So the office had 21 responses. Good answer. So that’s number three. One and three are gone, two, four five and six still remain. You have one strike against you, so we’re back to Una, and you have two potential strikes before the steal.

Okay, so I don’t know if people actually like to code and work from this, but people like to take pictures of their laptops in front of it…


People will post up at the pool and take a picture, but I don’t believe they’re actually working, because it gets too hot, and it’s too bright. But I’m thinking like on – I don’t know how to word it for this, but on vacation, or at the pool, like a relax… How do I verb that? I’ll just say the pool. At the pool.

At the pool, okay. Show us pool. [fail alert] Pool did not match, and I will say I included vacationing, or…

I guess I’m on Instagram too much.


People prefer to take pictures at the pool, of their laptops, versus working.


Alright, two strikes, so you’re now down to your final strike, and it’s back to Adam.

You got this!

No pressure… I’m not feeling any pressure… I say –

One wheel.

Yeah, on your one-wheel. That’s a really good answer, dang it. No, I’m gonna say the bar. Drinking beer, writing code, y’all.


That was gonna be mine.

Do people like to code at the bar? [win alert] Yes, they do. Six points for that one. That’s number five, so two, four and six remain.

I suck at drinking. I need to focus. [laughter]

Get focused.

Dedicate yourself yourself to one task at a time.

I’m gonna say the park/outdoors.


Okay, show us the park. [win alert]

Number two answer. Park - that includes the garden, in a garden, or in my backyard, park, outdoors.

Oh, that’s backyard, too?

Yes. So now only two remain, slot four and slot six. You have 91 points racked up…

Oh, this is hard.

…and we’re back to Una.

Okay, let me think. Where would I – oh, you know what? I have a good one… On an airplane. Like in transit.

Show us airplane.

I think it’s good, I don’t know.

[fail alert]

Nobody else thought of this…

I liked it, I liked it… But less airplanes than previously, although we’re starting to get on planes again… So that’s it. You had three strikes and you’re out. There’s 91 points to be stolen. Shoptalk, this is your big opportunity to steal these points and get right back in the game.

This is horrible…

We’ve got ’em.

There are two potential correct answers.

So I was thinking library… Do people work from libraries?

That’s pretty good…


I have a gym in mind. If the bar’s on there, it’s like the opposite of the bar. [laughter] Not that you do it while you’re working out, but then you get your –

In between reps?

You get your smoothie when you’re done, and post up at the little table, you know… [laughter]

Too much Instagram…

Yeah, I mean, those are – library I think sounds good.

That’s better, that’s better…

I literally can’t think where else – I’m surprised park is on there, because you need Wi-Fi…

Or like a restaurant… I guess pub would be grouped into that.

Yeah, I would lump restaurants in with bar and pub.

Mm-hm. I can’t beat library. That’s good. Of course that’s where you go work.

What else do people do outside their houses?

Or like “What do you do with your arms…?” [laughter]

I mean, I’m in a backyard office/shed, so is that covered under backyard and office?


Literally, both.

Oh yeah, that’s totally covered. You should make that your answer.

Yes, full coverage. [laughter]

Um, boy…

What are we thinking here?

Or like school, or whatever? Is that generic enough to encompass library?

Yeah. Public facility… [laughter]

A public facility.

Publicly-funded facility.

Final answer. Like a library, for example.

We’re gonna need an answer here. A lot does ride on this, I’m not gonna lie.

We don’t wanna mess this one up.

[44:28] You don’t wanna mess this one up.

So you’ve got library, potential…

An amusement park made of dinosaurs. [laughter]

Jurassic Park…?

We already did park, so that one’s taken, actually.

I literally don’t know.

Amusement park is covered under there?

Jurassic Park is covered under park/garden.

Alright, library. I think that’s our only good one.

That’s all I’ve got.

Let’s do it.

Okay, for the big chance to steal 91 points, and stay in this game, show us library… [win alert]

Library indeed!


Oh, yeah!

Dang it, that was on my list.

So to review… At number one was coffee shop and cafés, at number two was park/gard/yards, at the office was number three, the library - number four answer. The bar and pub, number five answer, and you guys literally covered everything you could potentially think of, because the other one was nowhere/I don’t leave my house.

Oh, my God… [laughter]

Come on, dudes…!

Similar to none, huh? Nice…

So I’m gonna take that one back off, hit Shoptalk, award the points…

Can we take points away from the people who answered that? Can they lose points?

[laughs] You’re gonna have to find them and de-anonymize them and go take their points away.


Well, I will say, after round five it’s very much a game again. So it got interesting. It was becoming to be a wipeout, but Shoptalk is back. And after five rounds, the CSS Podcast has 265 points, and the Shoptalk Show has 165 points. That may sound like a big gap, but the final round is double points, so there’s plenty of opportunity for anybody to win this game.

I’m sweatin’…

Let’s move to the last round, the double round, round six, and we face off Chris versus Adam.

Oh, geez…

For the final round, what’s the first thing you do when you think of a new project/idea? I believe it’s Shoptalk’s turn to go first. So there’s six potential answers on the board, and you need to match the highest one to play the round. What do you think, Chris?

Oh, man… I’m not gonna give you answers though. I’ve got just think internally, in my own head.

It makes for terrible radio…

Yeah, we’ll edit this part out, the silence.

Buy a domain name…!

Yeah, yeah, good answer, good answer, good answer…!

Show us “Buy a domain name.” [win alert] And that is number four.


17 people said either “Name it” or “Buy a domain name”. I grouped those two together, and that’s worth 34 points. So that’s what you will have to beat, Adam. You have to beat the number four answer to take the board.

New Git repo.

New Git repo. [win alert] Just inches it out at number three..


Wow, wow, wow…

So that includes anybody that said “Just get started”, “Start writing code”, “Start a new Git repo…” That whole thing that you do. Okay, so with that –

Those two were my top answers, so…

The CSS Podcast is in control of the final round. Two answers are taken off the board, there’s only four left. If you can answer all four of these, you de facto win the game. And we go to Nick.

I’m gonna say the easy think, “Talk about it, or tweet about it.”

Show us “Talk about it.” [win alert]

Number six answer. Ten people said “Tell someone”, which was either talk about it, tell a friend, tweet about it, tell my spouse etc. Good job, Nick. We go to Una. Slots one, two and five are still out there to be taken.

Okay. I’m gonna say “Sketch it out.” Make a plan, sketch it out.

[48:08] Sketch it out. Do people sketch out their new project ideas? [win alert] Yes, they do. Number five answer - draw, whiteboard, or prototype.


Wow, number one and two…

You guys are really smokin’ here… So one and two are the only two left…

Lookin’ bad for all Shoptalk team there… [laughter]

Unless they’re running out of ideas. We’ll see what happens. Adam, what else do people do when they think of a new project or idea.

I have a few good options, but I’m gonna go with prototype it. Quick prototype.

Prototype was inside the draw/whiteboard/prototype.

Oh, it is in there. Okay, then I’m gonna say npm init.

That one goes under “Just get started” kind of thing, which you already guessed.

How many guesses does it get? What’s going on?! [laughter]

They’re all on the board.

Everyone gets infinity guesses, I guess… [laughter]

What are you gonna say next, tell someone?

The database isn’t letting me insert my value, so that means my turn isn’t up yet, so I get to keep trying, right?

I mean, I think Jerod’s way cooler than a database, but…

He’s using the upsert model…

Database is my middle name. We need something here…

Dang… Okay, so yeah, these are just pretty abstract categories that a lot of mine are falling into… Like write a plan, write a document…

That’s a tough one. Write a plan, write a document.

Is that like whiteboarding it though…?

You know, words in a document, whether it’s Notion, whether it’s – you’ve gotta take your notes, spell out your idea… Kind of put it in words out of your brain. Something where you’re doing that.

Yeah, I’m gonna give it to you.

Research, plan, brainstorm. So there’s plan in there…

Planning, yeah.

These are tough ones to group, so I give it to you there. That’s the number two answer, with 31 points.

Thank you.

And the number answer is out there.

Alright, my turn?

Alright, I’m gonna say the obvious thing, which is “Nothing” or “Sit on it”. [laughter]

Is that your third one where you –

Do they do nothing? [fail alert]


Oh, they do not do nothing. We all thought that was a good answer, but it’s not.

Finally, the jackals coming through…

Alright, good job, jackals… Okay, back to Una, and we now have two more strikes. The number one answer is out there…

Okay, what do you do when you think of a new project/idea? So it’s in your head, and Adam kind of said write it down, putting it on paper…

Plan was his – he matched on plan.

He landed on plan, so we’ve gotta – we’ve gotta get it out. There’s a few things that it could be, but I think a lot of them fall into these things. So much pressure… Okay, it’s in your head…

[laughs] Yes.

Would design be like drawing it? It might be –

So between planning and drawing, I think design is taken in those.

What’s the first thing you do when you think of a new project or idea? Tell someone, put it on GitHub… Wow, this is hard. Would figuring out like a tech stack be a separate answer than these? Like, figuring out a gameplan…

If it’s like “Pick your tech stack”, I would take that as a separate. If it’s like “Figure out a gameplan”, that’s more like planning it and brainstorming.

Let’s do “Pick your tech stack.”

Alright, “Pick your tech stack.” [fail alert]

Oh, that was a good guess. Everyone’s like “Here’s my idea, and here’s the framework I’m gonna use.” That’s like the first thing out of their mouth, “I’m gonna use Framework X for my cool, new idea.”


Like, “I wanna build something with X.”

Okay, I’ve got a final guess… This is a little more personal, I guess, because I have a lot of ideas, and when you have a lot of ideas, they tend to go in the backlog, so the first thing I do is I take this idea and I put it in the list of all the other ideas that I have.

[51:58] Oh, that’s a great answer, Adam.

Show us “Add it to the list.” [win alert] Number one answer.

Wow…! Sweeped!

Wow! Well played, Adam, for the win!

72 points…

Write it down is there, too.

Well, that’s the generalization, but it was more like “Write it down for later”, versus “Put my thoughts on paper.” It was more like “I’m gonna save it for later”, which is kind of “Do nothing”, which Nick said, but it’s tough to group these things. I think the idea is “I’m gonna put it in my list of ideas so I don’t forget it, but I’m not gonna work on it right now.”

So… Wow, this was a great game. You guys swept the board. You kept Shoptalk off of the court for the final round. Congratulations, you guys. We’re gonna award all 264 points of round six of your team. That’s darn near what you had already, so doubling your score, with 529 points, our new Frontend Feud champions is Team CSS Podcast!

Wooh-wooh! [applause]

All that research I did on color models… [laughter]

So, as a congratulations of winning Frontend Feud, you now have an opportunity, each one of you in turn, to give a shout-out to a website, to a project, to a person, to an idea - maybe one from your list, Adam - that you like. Anything you’d like to say to round out the show… Let’s start with Una.

Oh, gosh… Well, if you wanna follow me on Twitter, go to Twitter.com/una… [laughs]

Okay, Twitter.com/una…

And all the other stuff will be there.

Alright, Adam, anything to shout out?

Yeah, shot-out to one-wheels for killing my boredom.

What’s one-wheels?

Wait, did you say “What’s one-wheels?”

How much time have we got? [laughter]

For those of us not in the know.

Put it in maybe the hoverboard category in your brain, but it’s the single wheel that you stand on sideways, and the wheel originally came from a go-kart, so it’s a rubber tire with a board on it, that self balances, and you use it to go everywhere. It goes everywhere, it’s very capable, surprisingly.

Very cool. I think I’ve seen these. I didn’t know they were called one-wheels, but…

Adam is a one-wheel advocate.

What do you advocate for? More usages of one-wheels? Less wheels, in general?

The freedom, and the feel – they call it floating, because once you get comfortable, you really do feel like you’re floating around the world, and it’s awesome.

Very cool. Well, we’ll add a link to some sort of one-wheels-based website in the show notes for people to check out. Nick! Congratulations, man, you were on the winning team, even though you’re not on the winning podcast. You’re on JS Party, still pretty good, I hear… Check out our Discord – no, we don’t have that. What do you wanna shout out? Do you wanna shout out our membership program, or…? TypeScript?

I recommend “Nothing”, you know… [laughter]

I think I was being pressured into that…

[laughs] TypeScript?!

You know, I’m going to shout out our lovely podcast that joined us today. I’m gonna say, if you want to talk shop, or learn about CSS, check out Shoptalk, or CSS.

Hey, thank you. That’s nice.

Very nice, very nice.

Check out JS Party. [laughs]

Dot FM…

If you’re listening to this and you haven’t checked out JS Party yet, something went terribly wrong… [laughter] Or somebody’s pirating our stream! Come on, people. Do your own thing.

Alright, well I just want to thank you all for joining us today. This game is always a blast. We had a lot of fun, it was a lively group, as expected… Y’all are awesome. Great game, it came down to the very end, and you know, the CSS Podcast pulled it out for the win. But that’s our show… I also wanna thank Amelia and Nick for rounding out the teams and sprinkling in the JS Party goodness to the game.

So, for JS Party, I’m Jerod Santo, this has been Frontend Feud… We’ll play again. CSS Podcast - y’all need to come back and defend your championship against some other group of podcasters to be decided later. Listener, if you have a favorite podcast that you want to get on Frontend Feud, holler at us at JSParty.fm and let us know. Advocate for the new contenders to the throne. For now, it’s the CSS Podcast team holding it down.

Alright, y’all, thanks for watching. We’ll talk to you again next time.


Our transcripts are open source on GitHub. Improvements are welcome. 💚

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