JS Party – Episode #285

Frontend Feud: CSS Pod vs Whiskey Web and Whatnot

with Una & Adam vs Chuck & Robbie

All Episodes

Una & Adam from The CSS Podcast defend their Frontend Feud title against challengers Chuck & Robbie from Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Let’s get it on!



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Notes & Links

📝 Edit Notes


1 00:00 It's feud time, y'all! 00:32
2 00:32 Welcoming our contestants 01:15
3 01:47 Terry the intern's interview questions 01:24
4 03:11 How the game works 01:29
5 04:40 Round 1: Favorite language 05:00
6 09:41 Round 2: !Favorite language 04:16
7 13:57 Round 3: Monitor size 05:21
8 19:18 Round 4: Work benefits 13:06
9 32:24 Round 5: Must-have SaaS 04:06
10 36:29 Round 6: Copilot feels 06:41
11 43:10 End Game 00:51
12 44:01 Interviewing the champs 01:45
13 45:46 Chuck & Robbie's show 00:57
14 46:43 The final word 01:46
15 48:29 Closing time 00:23
16 48:58 Outro (moar game shows!) 00:52


📝 Edit Transcript


Play the audio to listen along while you enjoy the transcript. 🎧

Hello, world. We are back with another Frontend Feud for your enjoyment. Returning champs return - that’s what champs do, they return - to defend their title. It’s Adam and Una from the CSS Podcast. Welcome back, y’all.

What’s up?!


How are you feeling today? Are you feeling cheeky? Are you feeling like winners? Are you feeling like you’re gonna defend, are you going to lose? What’s gonna happen?

Third time’s a charm, baby. [laughs]

I feel like Rocky hanging on the cliff with one finger, and I’m like “I got this… I think.”

Yeah. I don’t know how we won two in a row.

Cliffhanger reference. Old school. Does Rocky hang from the cliff, or is it just Sylvester Stallone?

Oh, that’s a good point.

That’s a question that will remain unanswered. Oh, we answered it. Those men laughing, but not yet talking, because I haven’t allowed it yet, are our contenders. It’s Robbie the Wagner, and Charles III - I’ll let him finish it - from Whiskey Web and Whatnot. What’s up, guys?

Thanks for having us, Richard Dawson. [laughter]

Yeah, do we get a kiss now? That was the ’70s version…

My name is Jerod Santo, I will be your host today… And we’re excited, because this is a chance for a 3P. The first time in Frontend Feud history we have a chance for a 3P. Now, for our last feud I had Larry the intern write some icebreaker questions. Unfortunately, those questions were so bad that he’s no longer with us. [laughter] Well, he’s no longer interning with us. He’s… Yeah, fired.

Can you fire AI? I don’t know.

So I asked our new intern, Terry, to check out your guys’s profiles and write a fun question for each of you, which I will read for the first time now. Okay, here I have a question for Robbie. You are a self-professed Ember.js and Tailwind fanboy. When are you going to grow up and become a fan man? [laughter]

Yeah, I don’t know. I think probably never.

Alrighty. Let’s turn to you, Chuck. Your name is Chuck Carpenter, but your enemies call you, Charles William Carpenter the Third. This begs the question, what is your third-favorite wood that you use for carpentry, Bill?

I’m a big pine fan.

Good answer. Good answer. Una Kravets. Una, you recently introduced the popover API to the world at Google IO. What you didn’t introduce was a popover blocker API. Coincidence?

[laughs] I wish.

And last and least, Adam Argyle. Adam, as a large language model, I don’t have opinions on Argyle’s – Terry, you are so fired! I said “No, AI, you’re out of here.” Let’s just play this game, shall we? [laughter]

We’re here to play Frontend Feud. This is the game where our contestants don’t try to be smart and correct, they try to be smart and match what our audience said. As we surveyed 100 JS Party listeners, we asked them various questions about technology, about developer life, and we saw what they answered. We grouped them together and we created a game board, which lists the top answers that were grouped.

Now, you had to have an answer repeat five times to actually make the board, so any answer less than five isn’t on the board. The top answers are on the board. And our teams will take turns trying to match those answers. The team with the most points at the end wins. Are there any questions?

I should point out one wrinkle in the rules is that each round begins with an interface-off (that’s a pun), and after the interface-off, whoever gets the highest match during that time, their team gets to play that round. They then get to guess repeatedly until they have three misses. After three misses, the other team can steal; they get one guess, they have to match the board to steal. You can confer at that time. You cannot confer while you’re just doing your regular guessing. And if you steal, you steal all the points for that round. Makes sense? Alright, let’s get our game board up…

I feel pressure…

Let me know when you can see the Frontend Feud gameboard.

Let’s see… Yes.

Oh, that’s us.

Okay, here we are. And ladies first, so we’ll start with Una, and she’ll be going against Chuck in our very first interface-off.

Wait, where’s my buzzer?

Oh, we don’t buzz.

There’s no buzzer. We take turns, because latency problems… So we will just be taking turns. This will be Una versus Chuck. Una, we asked 100 JS Party listeners “What is your most favorite programming language?” The top five answers are on the board. What do you think they said?

I’m gonna have to go with JavaScript on this one…

Is JavaScript on the board? [win alert] Yes, of course it is. But the twist ending… It’s in point number two. So JavaScript is indeed on the board, but it’s only their second-favorite programming language, which means, Chuck, you get a chance to answer. If you can match that top spot, you and Robbie get to play this round.

This could be interesting… I feel like it’s a trick answer for the first one then… These were JS Party people who were surveyed…


…so I’m gonna pick TypeScript.

I can’t believe this could possibly be the case… Is TypeScript the most popular programming language amongst JS Party listeners? [win alert] It absolutely is. Number one spot, TypeScript… Which to me is just proof that Nick Nisi stuffed the ballots, and answered the majority of these responses were all Nick, with different names, like Rick Nisi, Chick Nisi, Flick Nisi… Stuff like that.

[05:56] Nonetheless, the Whatnots have it. So one and two are gone. Chuck and Robbie will be playing this round… And we have three, four and five left on the board. Fellas, you’ve got to match all three of those, and you take home all of round one’s point. Let’s go down to Robbie, it’s your turn. What is our listeners’ most favorite programming language?

I’m gonna go with Rust.

Show me Rust. [win alert] It’s on there. Number four answer, with seven responses. Very good. Alright, Charles, back to you.

I’m gonna pick… I’m a little torn between two. We can’t confer, so I’m just gonna pick Golang.

Show us Golang. [fail alert]

It’s my last serious answer… Okay.

I’m sorry, but Golang did not make the top five. Robbie, your turn.

How about Ruby?

Is Ruby one of the most favorite languages of our listeners? [win alert] Number three, with eight respondents naming Ruby. So we have one through four matched. That’s TypeScript, JavaScript, Ruby and Rust. The fifth one’s still on the board. You have one strike, so two more chances before the chance to steal. We go back to you, Chuck.

I’m going to pick PHP.

Show us PHP. [fail alert] Oh, strike two. So far Robbie is carrying the team…

Yeah, no, I’m gonna lose it for us here…

And Charles is proving that he’s not in charge. Alright, Robbie, here we go… Match that number five spot and you guys take home round one points. There’s already 69 points on the board.

I have no idea… I’m going to assume that this is like a weird one, that’s not really a programming language, so I’m gonna say HTML.

For round one and the board, is HTML the fifth most favorite programming language of our listeners? [fail alert] It is not. I am so sorry, but you guys missed thrice. So our opportunity to steal - Adam and Una, you can now confer amongst yourselves. You have to match that fifth spot. You match it, and you steal it. What do you think?

Okay, we’ve got one shot…

Yeah. What are your guesses? I’ve got one left on my list.

I have two thoughts. My first thought is maybe Python, because people like Python a lot. And there’s some web coordination. I don’t know if that’s this audience necessarily, so I’m not sure about that one. But my second guess is what if people just said none? [laughs]

Oh, yeah, that was a tricky thing about last time…

It was quite the conundrum.

I have Python on my list as well. You know, my heart says CSS, and I’m with Robbie there –

Mine too.

… with HTML. It’s obviously up there as well. But I think Python’s our strongest guess.

But I don’t think they said CSS. [laughter] I think it’s Python. Let’s go with that.

Alright. Python. PiePie. Show me. I’m hungry, I need some pie.

Alright, to steal round one, and to prove why they are two-time champs - is Python on the board? [win alert] They got it. Number five answer, Python.

I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry, y’all. [laughs]

That is a successful round.

Yeah… I really thought it was going to be CSS, to be honest.

That would have made my heart happy.

Well, we should mention a few of our noteworthy contenders… Like I said, five votes or more, you don’t make the board. CSS got three, so it was right there…

We’ve gotta get more CSS on your show.

Yeah, I think so, too. Java got two votes, and someone confirmed they were not joking, as part of their vote. HTML only got one, but it was not zilch, like many other languages were… So not bad, but 75 points are going to the CSS Podcast, and we turn now to round two.

This will be Adam versus Robbie in the interface-off. We will start with Robbie. This time, on the flip side, what is your least favorite programming language? There are six spots on the board. Robbie, you get to guess first.

Let’s say Java.

[10:00] Show us Java. [fail alert] Number one answer, Java! …with 22 respondents naming Java their least favorite programming language. So again, Chuck and Robbie get to play, and this is round two. So we go now to Chuck. Two through six still out there - what programming languages do you think our listeners do not like very much?

I’m going to pick PHP again.

So you picked it on the favorite, and now you’re picking it on the least favorite.

I feel like it could have made both.

Kind of a shotgun approach, or what’s the strategy here?

A little bit of that, yeah. I’ve only got three answers in my head, and I’m just gonna read them over and over.

They’re the only languages that you know of. [laughter] Okay, let’s see if PHP made it around this time; I guess because it wasn’t on the last board, maybe that’s some evidence that it might be here. Is it? [win alert] Yes, it is. Number two answer, with 18 people hatin’ on PHP. But there’s still many left. We go back to Robbie.

I’m going to say – so are Typescript and JavaScript different in the context of this? Well, I’m gonna say TypeScript. I think a lot of people don’t like TypeScript.

show us TypeScript… [fail alert] Sorry, Robbie. Much to my chagrin, people don’t dislike TypeScript as much as they should. [laughter] But no, they didn’t mention that. Back to you, Chuck.

Okay… Again, my shotgun approach… I am going to say .NET.

Can you be more specific? The programming language itself.

Right, not for the framework, yeah… C#.

Okay, now you got it. Show me C#. [win alert] Yes, bottom of the board, C#. Six points. So you’ve gotten one and two and six. Three, four and five are left. You have one strike against you. Back to you, Rob.

Come on, Robbie.

How about just normal C? Is that different?

Normalcy? Like, they don’t like things being normal?

No, I mean like –

Sorry, puns encouraged. [laughter] You said normalcy. Like, they prefer it when things are frantic? Okay… Normal, plain, old C. Do people despise plain, old C? You bet they do. [win alert] Number four answer. Eight people do not like C. Alright, three and five are next. It’s getting tougher… Chuck, what do you think?

Cold Fusion.

Show us Cold Fusion? [fail alert] Most of our listeners might not know what Cold Fusion is…

ActionScript, yeah.

That was my web development class in college, it was Cold Fusion.

Did you love it, or hate it, or think it was just okay?

I’d put it on this list.

Yeah, fair enough. So we’re down to our last guess before the steal. I’m starting to have some deja-vu, guys… Let’s see what we can do here. Number three and five are both out there… Robbie, what do you think?

I’m gonna continue with C and say C++.

Show us C++. [win alert] You got it. Number five, with seven people not liking to increment their normal C.

Good. Now Chuck can fail us. [laughter]

Chuck, it’s all on your shoulders, my friend. Number three answer is waiting for you to identify.

I am not happy about this… I think maybe it’s a non kind of serious answer… Maybe your listeners like the irony. I’m going to pick JavaScript.

Could it possibly be that the least favorite programming language of 100 people that listen to a podcast about said programming language… [laughter] What kind of logic is this, Charles? Well, it’s good logic, because it’s the correct answer! [win alert]


11 of our listeners cannot stand JavaScript.

Yeah, it’s a love/hate thing is what I was thinking. And I can empathize with that.

That’s a good answer, yeah.

Yeah, very nice.

It was a good answer. Just like that, you guys are back. I award you those points; that’s 72 points for the Whatnots, and CSS Pod is sitting at 75. So after round two, it is absolutely anybody’s game. We move now to round three.

This is back with Una and Chuck facing off. We’ll let Chuck go first this time.

[14:06] We asked 100 of our listeners, “How big is your primary computer monitor?” And I will say that the answers were all over the board. So we’ve grouped by ranges. These are all ranges that match, but you don’t have to match the range. Just name a size, and I’ll tell you if it fits inside of that range. Alright, Chuck, you’re up first. How big do you think people’s monitors are, generally?

36 inches.

Show us 36. [fail alert] Sorry, you’ve found the one range that actually has zero points. Somehow you managed to find it. So this goes to Una… Literally, that’s like the only answer wasn’t gonna match. [laughter]

I can say anything.

Yeah, pretty much anything is going to be on here, but he found a gap in the ranges. Go ahead.

We’ll see. I might also just not –


I’m gonna go with 32 inches. I think that’s how big my monitor is.

Show us 32. [win alert] Yes, the number two answer, between 31 to 35 inches. 13 people had exactly 34 inch monitors, and 23 people matched inside of that range. So you matched a range, which means you’ve taken the board, and now for the first time you and Adam will get to play a round. So that’s the second answer. One, three, four and five are still out there. It is not 36… Adam, what do you think?

Do a lot of JS Party listeners have 24 inch monitors? [win alert] Yes, they do. Number three answer, which covers the ranges 20 to 24, of which 15 of the 20 had exactly 24 inch monitors. So you landed on a common one there. Alright, Una, back to you.

Okay, I’m gonna go to laptop screen sizes now… So maybe 15 inches?

Show us 15. [win alert] number four answer, covering ranges 13 to 19. Five of the 18 people had exactly 15 inch monitors. But yeah, that is your laptop range. 18 of our listeners, that’s the number four spot, so we still haven’t matched that number one spot yet… Or the last spot. So back to you, Adam.

Show us 12. [fail alert] I’m sorry, but that goes underneath the minimum size of 13. I guess we’ve moved past that age in our lives where we have 12 inch monitors. So back to you – that’s one strike. Back to Una.

Good try though. That was solid. iPads, you know…

Right. Primary computer monitor, remember the specific question…

I’m gonna go with just deducing the information we have here, 25 to 30 inches.

25 to 30 inches. Show us 25 to 30. [win alert] That is our number one answer. 18 people have 27 inch monitors - it’s a very common size - and 26 Total people fit inside of that range. So you have 87 points match; that number five spot’s still there. You have one strike, two guesses to land the number five. Adam?

They don’t. They don’t use an external monitor. None.

Show me none. [fail alert] Too clever. Too clever, my friend.

Dang it.

We’re down to our very last guess now. It’s starting to look –

Save us.

Okay, wait, so 36 wasn’t on here… I’m just talking out loud.

Okay. Please do.

But that would theoretically be like the next category. Do people have, like, really big – I don’t even know how big they make them.

Some people do. Oh, we can’t confer –

No, don’t talk, Adam. She’s talking out loud… But you have to talk privately, Adam.

There’s like the curved monitors, which could be double wide… So if 36 is not a category in here, let’s go with maybe 40 inches. That’s my guess.

40 inches. So she’s thinking no 36… You have to guess the upper range of that range. This is tough. Is she up to the task? We asked 100 JS Party listeners – I’m stalling now for dramatic effect. How big is your primary computer monitor? Did more than five of them say 40 inches? [win alert] You got it. 40+ inches, seven people…

Go, Una, go Una, go!

…three of which have 49 inch monitors. So congrats to you all three for doing that, I guess… And congrats to Una and Adam for clearing the board. A couple of noteworthy answers… One person said “I’m too lazy to measure it.” It’s like, alright, just leave it blank then. You don’t have to write that. Another person said 24 inch horizontal, but 27 vertical. That person was not too lazy, apparently, to measure it. One person said “I’m totally blind. I don’t use a monitor.” So don’t forget about our blind friends. And then one person just wrote “iMac.” It’s like, come on. That’s not even a size. [laughter] So thanks for nothing to that particular listener… But at the end of round three, all 94 points now going to CSS Pod. Una with the final answer there awarded, and taking now - I wouldn’t say a commanding lead, but a lead, is CSS Podcast, with 169 points. But watch out for those Whiskey Web and Whatnotters. They’re still hanging in at 72, and we move now to round four.

Okay, this is our now famous inverted round. So in the inverted round, you want to match not the most popular answers, but the least popular answers, that were at least popular enough to have five. So the top of the board, one, is worth the least amount of points, and the bottom of the board, six, is worth the most amount of points. There is no face-off in this round. We’re just going to switch back and forth between the teams, taking turn guessing.

The question that we asked our listeners, “What non-financial work benefit do you prize the most?” And we have the top six answers now on the board. We will take our challengers first. Let’s go to Robbie. What do you think people said when we asked them “What non-financial work benefit do you prize the most?”

Does health insurance count as financial, or no?

You’ll have to ask our 100 JS Party listeners…

Okay, let’s say health insurance.

Show us health insurance. [fail alert] Sorry, that did not make the top six. We turn now to CSS Podcast. Let’s go to Adam. What do you think?

I’m thinking funsies. *bleep* and giggles.

Show me funsies…

Survey says…

[fail alert] I’m sorry.

Jerod’s face was like “Whaat?!”

Nobody thinks funsies is a work benefit. [laughter] It’d be cool though if that was listed on the perks.

On the employment contract, funsies, 10%.

Yeah, exactly. Alright, this is gonna be a fun round already, I can tell. Let’s go now to Chuck. What do you think?

It can’t be worse answers than those… [laughter] Free coffee.

Show us free coffee. [fail alert]

Well, you laid the gauntlet, and then you managed to maybe match it.

What obscure benefits are these?

Nobody wants free coffee. Una, your turn. Somebody please match the board.

I’m gonna say free food.

Let’s go back to the drawing board. Show us free food… [fail alert] Think bigger, think better, think smarter. Robbie, back to you.

Um, flexibility to work remote?


Jerod here in the editing room… I should point out that on a live show, I heard Robbie say “flexibility”, but I did not hear him say “to work remote.” That may seem like a small distinction right now, but this round is about to go off the rails, and it’ll make a lot more sense to you with that little nugget in your pocket. Okay, back to the Feud.

[21:55] Good answer. Good answer. Did people appreciate freedom and flexibility? [win alert] They sure do. That’s the number two response, 18 people, but it is near the top of the board, and this is the inverted round, so you only get 10 points, because it’s number two. We’ll award those now, and we will go back to CSS Pod. I believe it’s Adam’s turn…

What is PTO?

Show us paid time off. [win alert] Now we’re starting to hone in on what people appreciate. That is the number three answer. Some people said “Unlimited PTO”, some said “Generous PTO”, some said “Actually unlimited PTO, not that fake unlimited, where you pressure us not to take it…” 17 people answered in that category; it’s the number three answer, so it’s worth 15 points. I’ll award those now, and we’ll go back to Whiskey Web and Whatnot. Chuck, I believe it’s your turn. We have one, four, five and six still able to be matched.

Okay, new hardware.

Good answer. Show me new hardware. [fail alert] Not quite good enough. That one had a few answers, but not enough.

That’s what I was gonna say, so I’m glad you said it first…

Well, you’re trying to match unpopular, so I can’t blame you. But nonetheless, Una.

Oh, this is hard, because some of them have financial aspects to them.

Right. So it’s up how do they interpret it.


I thought insurance is a good answer, but it’s also – it’s financial if you just break it down, right?

Yeah. Oh, man… Yeah, a lot o them I’m thinking are financial, but what non-financial work benefit…? Benefit… Maybe the networking that you get at work, with co-workers… Maybe your co-workers that you like, I don’t know…

That’s a good one. [laughter]

That’s not on there is it?

Alright, so maybe it’s not so much the end goal, but the friends that we made along the way. Is that an important value that people benefit at work? [win alert] Yes, it is. And it’s not that important, so it’s number five, which means it’s worth a lot of points. This covers friendships, team events, networking, hanging out, meeting people. So that covers that whole category. And it’s worth 25 points, because only seven people answered that. We’ll award those now, and go back over to the other side. Alright, Robbie, we have one, four and six. So far, we have freedom and flexibility of schedule, we have unlimited or generous PTO, and we have friends and team events all answered. What else could people value that are non-financial?

What about work/life balance?

Could you be more specific? Or could you put it in different words?

Say new words…

I don’t know, if you were to say it in different words, what words would those be? [laughter]

Alright… I would say that your burgeoning upon one, but I might have to strike it unless you can reword it quickly.

Like, not having to work longer than nine to five, I guess.

Okay, that one I’m going to put under freedom and flexibility, so I’m gonna go ahead and say wrong… [fail alert] But you may have dropped a little breadcrumb for Adam… Unfortunately it’s your turn now; maybe you learned something from Robbie.

I do not know the synonyms for work/life balance… [laughter] That’s the term I tend to use with all my friends as well. I’m gonna say “Skills and experience.” So the acquired, like, on-the-job intelligence.

Right. Skill acquisition. Alright, show us on-the-job intelligence. [win alert] Yeah, we’ll give it to you.

Not exact words up there, but learning, education… This included skills development. It’s the number four answer; eight people said it, which means it’s worth 20 whole points. We’ll award those now, and you’re building your lead, CSS Pod. We’re back to Chuck, but that number six is still out there. It’s worth 30, so there’s plenty of points on the board if you can match that sixth spot. Chuck, what are you thinking?

Alright, I’m gonna try and follow the Reese’s Pieces and I’m gonna say job satisfaction.

[25:53] Job satisfaction. I’m not going to ask you for a synonym; I’m gonna go ahead and say yes, that is one. [win alert] And this is the general category of challenge, impact made, and that kind of quality. I think that is job satisfaction, is how much is my impact. Only five people appreciate job satisfaction, which means it’s worth a whopping 30 points… So we’ll award those now. But strangely, the most popular, the number one, and somewhat overwhelmingly so still hasn’t been matched by anybody. So I’m wondering, what’s going on with that? Una, back to you.

My initial thought was sort of like working on interesting problems, which I think is the challenge and impact.

Yeah, totally.

But I also think a piece of it is building your portfolio, which I think is slightly different. So maybe my answer is going to be something around building your portfolio, or like open source work… Because a lot of people get to do open source work, and highlight the work that they do in their communities… So that’s gonna be my guess, is open source, or –

I definitely see that as a benefit. Unfortunately, it’s not the number one benefit on the board. [fail alert]

Is it number six? [laughter]

Well, it would be number seven or below. It didn’t quite make the board, so not the point… But we’re only here working for five points, so I’m making you guys work really hard for not very many points… It’s what I do, it’s what I love. Robbie the Wagner, what are you thinking? Did you think of a synonym yet?

Oh, okay, so it’s so that then…

Well, there hasn’t been a synonym that matched quite yet.

No, I mean… [laughter]

No is not an answer.

Yeah, I had other answers, but now that you’ve said that that’s what it is…

No, go ahead. Go ahead and guess whatever you like.

No, no, I know it’s not –

I’ve got nowhere to be. I can just keep hitting this –

Go ahead and guess the wrong thing… [laughter]

Yeah, no problem. Who needs five points…? Let’s say… All of this is like flexibility though I feel like, but not a lot of meetings, so you can get work done, I don’t know.

I will say that’s flexibility, so I’d say guess something else. I ixnayed you last time, so I’ll let you guess another one this time. You’re being around this bush… We do have a timer though. It’s in my head, and it’s counting down furiously.

Yeah, I don’t have anything. I’ll pass.

Alright. [fail alert]

I think I know what it is.

Una thinks she knows it. Is it your turn, Una, or is it Adam’s?

No, I think it’s Adam’s.

It’s too fast for me. Okay, Adam, do you think you know it?

I don’t think I know it, but I have a swag at it, which also – did you flinch when I said the word “swag”?


No. Okay.

Well played, well played…

I tried to do the horse trick.

You’re trying to read me?

If it’s foot kicks, I’m like “Oh, good. That must be the right answer.”

I have been told that I have a tell.

I am watching you touch your chin.

You’re touching your chin. You’ve got no hair there, but you’re reaching for it. So that mean the answer is close?

He’s thinking, he’s thinking…

Yeah. I’m gonna say – well, as much as I want to say like beer, like a kegerator, I’m actually going to say security. Security, job security. It’s like an intangible feeling and benefit that you get from having a good job.

Okay, show me job security. [fail] Unfortunately, job security is not any sort of synonym for work/life balance.

For work/life balance. There are no other words for work/life balance.

Alright, since we’re struggling, I’ll drop a little more… It’s not a synonym for a work/life balance, but it’s just in that general area of work/life balance. Back to Chuck.

That’s what I thought security was. I was like “Security’s that vibe, ish…”

It’s a good guess.

It’s a good guess. I’ll just say, there’s a gap that’s gonna be very obvious when you guys hear it. I don’t want to say more, because I’ll give Chuck too much to chew on.

Grid gap or flex gap? [laughter]

I don’t know CSS, so I can’t answer that… Just kidding.

It’s not a programming language…

It’s not JavaScript.

According to the survey…

Or is it JavaScript? That’d be a an ironic answer.

Survey says… Chuck is dumb. What is like work/life balance, but not those words…?


And not freedom or flexibility. I don’t know. I’m just gonna say respect.

That’s a good answer, actually. [fail alert] It’s a wrong answer, but it’s a good answer. I like that one.

I’m not getting there.

Yeah, can’t get none… Una, have you been thinking about it over there? I thought you said you thought you had it.

I think I know it. I think I’m picking up what you’re putting down.

Okay, let’s hear it.

[30:09] My guess is that it is parental leave. It’s like work/life balance, but – it’s in that realm, but it’s not work/life balance.

Yeah… That’s a really tough one. That’s actually – it was categorized previously under like generous paid PTO, like paid time off.

Oh, okay.

So great thought. Definitely, people answered it. I grouped it into PTO. So I’ll let you go again.

Oh, no, that was my thought.

Oh, that’s your thought?

I don’t have any more.

We can go back to Robbie. Okay, this is getting very –

Robbie, you can do it.

The plot is thickening. We’ll just do that… [fail alert] Sorry, I have a contractual obligation to make that noise. Robbie, since you’ve been beating around the bush, I’ll give you a little bit of a hint. This is actually something that’s controversial, and in our common dialogue people talk about it. They write blog posts… It’s important today in our society. That makes it harder…

For me it’s obvious, because I know the answer.

Yeah… [laughs]

Parental leave?

Parental leave? [laughs] Yeah, that was a great answer, just grouped in already. I’ll provide another hint in the next round, because now I’m starting to play favorites here… Rooting for the underdogs, as is my penchant…

This is hard.

Alright, I’ll say it right now; here is the other clue, okay? Freedom and flexibility is about flexibility of schedule. It’s not about any other kind of freedom or flexibility. It’s just about like being able to make your own hours, and stuff. So if you’re thinking that that’s covered, that part’s covered, but there’s another thing that’s not covered… Which all of our audience is screaming into their podcasting apps right now. “Why won’t you just say –”

Well, I said this before, but like working from home?

Working from home? Remote work? Could it be the number one answer? [win alert] It is! Work from home/remote.

Good job, Robbie.

Well done, Robbie. I’m glad that you got it at the end of the day, because you were closest to it when I didn’t give it to you before… So I will award you those five points, which we spent more than five minutes acquiring…

We were so close.

Unfortunately, after that round you’re still not in the lead. Whiskey Web and Whatnot has 117 points. CSS Pod has 229 points. That’s round four. But have no fear, guys, because rounds five and six are both double points. So plenty of time to come back, and we now move to round five.

Double point round. Name a SaaS - that’s software-as-a-service, not some sort of attitude disposition… Name a software-as-a-service that you can’t imagine living without. Five answers on the board. We will have a face-off, and I believe it’s Adam and Robbie this round. Is that correct? Yes, it is. Alright, Adam and Robbie, step right up. You shall be facing off. Let’s start with Adam. Adam, name of SaaS that you can’t imagine living without. Better yet, name one that our audience can’t imagine living without.


Show us GitHub. Number one answer, GitHub.

But only 12 respondents, so this was a very dispersed round. It’s worth 24 points, and it takes the board. So we now have a CSS Podcast playing this round. We go to Una. Name a SaaS you can’t imagine living without.

I’m gonna say Vercel, for hosting and other things.

Show us Vercel. [fail alert] Sorry, Vercel is not on the board. Adam.


Show me Netlify. [fail alert] Wow…

That was my next guess, so I think we’re on the same page.

Two strikeouts in a row… Back to Una. You have a chance of losing it here already. [laughter]

Don’t tell me that…

I hate to break it to you, but that’s just where you stand.

I’m gonna say Analytics, maybe Google Analytics…

[33:53] Show us Google Analytics. [win alert] That one is bundled into all kinds of Google things: Google Drive, Google Pay, Google Analytics, Google Maps. These are all software as a service that seven of our listeners can’t live without, so it’s worth 14 points. That’s the number four slot. Two, three and five are still out there, one strike left. Adam, what do you think?

I’m gonna say logging services. So you’ve got your Sentrys, your LogRockets, your… Yeah.

Show us logging services. [fail alert] I’m sorry, that is not on the board. So a chance to come back and a chance to steal for Whiskey Web and Whatnot.

And we can confer on this one, right?

Yes, you two can discuss. You get one guest.

Okay, because it’s top of mind and talked a lot about recently, do we say ChatGPT?

I guess that counts…

I’ll stop you right there. This survey went out prior to the ChatGPT craze. So it will not be on there, because it wasn’t – we did this survey late fall.

Oh, okay.

That’s a great guess though.

Yeah, it is.

I would have thought, like, yeah, why not what I’m seeing a bunch…?

What if clarify - does that count for GitHub Copilot as well?

GitHub Copilot was definitely out for a long time before that, so I would allow that answer.

That could be a good one.

I would say either that, or like – there’s got to be hosting of some kind on here, like Cloudflare, or…

Can you just say AWS in that sense then?

Maybe… You have the software interface for deploying and all that, so I would think…

Yeah, I think that’s a good answer.

AWS, are you going with it?

Yeah, let’s do that.

Show us AWS.

Survey says…

[fail alert] Ah… I think what happened this round is I think our listeners answered more personally, and we were all thinking more developery, because the services they actually talked about are more like lifestyle, personal things. So no steal. There’s only 38 points so far. We’ll award those to CSS Pod. And now I’ll show you the answers. We had number five was Stripe, so that one is definitely a developer service. Number three was Gmail or email providing. So again, that’s more of a personal thing than a developer thing. And then number two, of course, leave it up to JS Party listeners - “None. I don’t have any service I can’t live without it.”

There it is. [laughter]

If you asked me, one rejection of the premise per show. It’s kind of a requirement around here. So quick round, not very many matches. Still within reach. CSS Pod has 267, Whatnot with 117, but we have our final round coming up, and it’s worth double points. Let’s get to it.

Speaking of GitHub Copilot… So I will preface this with the contextualization this survey was provided for our previous Frontend Feud game, which was last fall. So GitHub Copilot was very much a thing, ChatGPT came out in November-ish… So the current AI frenzy was not quite happening yet, but we did ask our audience “In a word, how does GitHub Copilot make you feel?” This is about their feels. And we will go with a face-off between Una and Chuck. Let’s have Chuck go first.

I’m trying to contextualize, because – well, it makes me feel creepy.

GitHub Copilot makes Chuck feel creepy. Does it make our audience feel creepy? [laughter] [win alert] Yes, it does. Number four answer.

Wow. I was doing that for the lols.

Close enough… They said icky. So I kind of put that in with creepy. So that means they felt exploited, robbed or icky, all in that category of “Yeah, it’s creepy, it’s exploitative etc.” So that’s number four. This is a face-off, so we’re back to Una. You can steal the board and play it if you can name one, two or three on the list of words that GitHub Copilot made our audience feel.

This is a very divisive thing. You can go either way here. I will say, as a representative of the CSS Podcast, Copilot is very bad at CSS. Very bad at it. I think it’s just the general quality of the web. So I’m gonna say frustrated and annoyed by it. And I think a lot of people probably feel that way, too. If they know their craft and they’re getting results, that’s unexpected. So I’m gonna go with frustrated/annoyed. It seems like the same thing to me.

[38:14] Yeah. Show me annoyed. [win alert] Yes, they are annoyed. However, it’s the number six answer. They’re also tired. So this, I think, was more about annoyance of hearing about it, talking about it etc. But I gave it to you because you said annoyed and the word is annoying. Hence the long pause for me to think about “Should she get it or not?” So you get it. However, Chuck’s answer was number four, and this was answered number six. So he actually wins the face-off and they play this round. Guys, this is your Big Shot. Here we go. Alright, Robbie, what do you think?

I’m gonna say productive.

Show us productive. [win alert] Number one answer, worth a whopping 44 points. People feel empowered and productive because of GitHub Copilot. Very good answer. Chuck, it’s looking good. What do you think?

Yeah, it sounds like people weren’t so pessimistic as I had considered… Informed?

Show me informed. [fail alert] It did not make the board. Back to you, Robbie.

How about dumb?

Can you say more? Like, they feel dumb, or do they think it’s – I mean, in other words, do they feel dumb, or do they think it’s dumb?

Like, it makes them feel dumb, because it’s like “Oh, I didn’t know how to do that that way.”

Okay. Thanks for the clarification. [fail alert] I’m sorry, but no.

Okay, so the other way is the answer you want, Chuck…

No comment…

Yeah, that wasn’t helpful. So instead of feeling dumb, Robbie’s insinuating that they would feel like validated, or smart. Maybe I’ll just pick smart. They feel smart.

I’m gonna group that under productive.

Okay. Then pick something else is what you mean. They feel… Nothing.

Always rejecting the premise. I appreciate that effort. Unfortunately, they feel something… [fail alert] So no, they do not feel nothing. A couple of people did say “Don’t care” or “Nothing”, but not enough. So chance to steal. Go ahead and confer. Three things to match. One is gone, that’s empowered and productive. Four is gone. That’s exploited, robbed or icky, creepy. And six is gone. That’s tired or annoyed. But two, three and five are left. Adam and Una, a chance to steal and a chance to seal your three-time championship.

No pressure. Alright, what you got? I have three possibilities.

I mean, just going off of what Jerod said, there’s –

You can’t go off what I said…

The potential answer of people think that it is dumb; it sort of makes them feel dumb. So I don’t know, that seems to be on the board…

That’s kind of annoyed. You know, you’re annoyed, because you’re like “This is supposed to be smart, and it’s giving me dumb stuff.”

Yeah, I kind of feel like it is a part of that. But yeah, what are your ideas?

I think – so here’s my silly one, is that it makes them feel like a pilot. Get it? [laughter] Wow, that really… That really flopped.

There’s your feedback right there…

You’re not so funny, apparently… No, the one I think is decent is scared or anxious. It’s making them worried about their job.

On the other hand, they could be excited about thinking about higher-level concepts; not having to do all the smaller steps to get there. I don’t know…

My last one is – well, I guess this one’s kind of supposed to be funny too, but it makes them feel like a tool… So I feel like a tool, because this thing is just reading all my stuff and generating more, and it’s just like “Oh, I’m just a cog in its big machine.”

I like your idea about anxious or worried.

Yeah, let’s just scared or anxious. I think so, too.

Yeah, let’s go with that.

Okay. We asked 100 JS Party listeners, in a word, how does GitHub Copilot make you feel? Three answers on the board, chance to a steal, and to secure once again a frontend feud championship. Does it make our audience feel worried, anxious or concerned? [win alert] Yes, it does.

Wooh! [laughter]

That is the number three answer. Some people just said it makes them feel poor, like they’re gonna be poor… [laughter] Because it’s gonna make them that way.

[42:12] Unemployed.

Which is 102 points stolen and awarded to CSS Podcast. Let’s find out what the other things people feel. So we had number one was empowered and productive; number two - this was the one where I was trying to get you guys to circle the wagon on… They’re unimpressed, or they said “Meh.” So that’s kind of the “It’s dumb.” Not “I’m dumb”, but “It’s dumb.” So that would have definitely matched. Anxious, concerned, poor, jobless was another thing people said… Exploited, robbed, or icky - that’s number four. We got that one. Number five was “Curious about it”, they’re interested in it, kind of excited, but don’t know much about it… And number six, we had as “Tired or annoyed with the entire conversation.” So for those people, I apologize we’re still talking about it… But what are you gonna do?

We’ll have to have ChatGPT in the next one.

Yes. ChatGPT may or may not have written these questions for you guys… [laughter] So after six crazy rounds and a great game, our contenders, Whiskey Web and Whatnot, you guys finished off with 117 Points. Very honorable. Thanks for playing. But our winners, for the third consecutive game in a row - I’m never gonna get rid of these two. It’s Adam and Una from CSS Podcast. Congratulations!

I feel so good about my victory.

Do you feel empowered and productive? Unimpressed and meh? Anxious and poor? [laughter]

Is this your highest points total? I just want to know how bad –

I would have to go back and check. It’s definitely up there. 369 points is quite a few.

I think y’all scored higher than one of the other teams…


We’ll go with that.


I guess we got something…

We will now do our post-game Super Bowl interview. Adam. 30-time championship, unprecedented, no one’s ever done this… You managed to win Frontend Feud for the third time. Tell me, right now in this moment, how do you feel?

I feel like a turkey. I feel like I look like a turkey, I’ve acted like turkey–you know three bowling wins, what is a turkey? You don’t know what a turkey is?

You switched games on me. I was thinking football, you’re going bowling… Fair enough.

I’m turkey. I feel like a turkey. I’m gonna go eat a turkey, I’m gonna pet a turkey, I’m going to do all the turkey things that I can. Is there a turkey whiskey? I’m gonna drink some turkey whiskey.

It’s called Wild Turkey.

There you go. I’m down. I wanna get a bottle and celebrate.

There you go.

I’m glad you connect it back into the conversation with the wild turkey. I was about to dock you about 200 points. [laughter]

Is there a turkey thing?

But I won’t do that. Actually, you still would have won. Dang it. Okay, Una. You really came through in the clutch. I mean, you had a couple of big steals, you really carried Adam… He was pretty pathetic the entire game. I think I saw him tearing up at one point… What do you say when your teammates ask you how this day went, and how you performed?

[45:07] Well, as a single tear slowly trickles down my cheek, I want to thank my teammates, I want to thank my mom, I want to thank my family, I think my dog… No, it’s all good fun. Thanks for having us.

It is all good fun. I always have a blast with this game. And I can tell you, as the person who knows all the answers, it’s very frustrating to sit on the side and watch you guys grasp at them. But I empathize. I’m not tired and annoyed. I’m curious and interested, you know? And I’m glad that you guys managed to finally realize how important working from home is for the average software developer; talk about a knowledge gap… Chuck and Robbie, thanks for playing. Anything you’d like to say? Whiskey Web and Whatnot, do you want to tell folks what your podcast is about, what you guys are doing, etc?

Well, first of all, I just want to comment that the ref made some questionable calls there… I don’t know, I think it could have been a little bit of a closer game, but…

Okay, I will now revoke your opportunity to plug… [laughter] Terrible timing, Chuck.

Unplug. Unplug Chuck.

Yeah. Just kidding. Go ahead.

We’ll just kick Chuck out. [laughter]. No, dude. Were you gonna continue with stuff to plug, or do you want me to say things, Chuck?

No, you do it.

He actually thought I cut him off.

No, I was cutting myself off, and just letting Robbie do it.

Yeah, Whiskey Web and Whatnot is, as the name implies, about Whiskey Web and general whatnot. So it’s a fun time, it’s a little bit of a different format. We drink some whiskey, get to know people on a more personal level… Of course, talk some tech hen it makes sense. You can check it out at whiskeywebandwhatnot.fm, and find all of our links to everything else from there.

Very cool. But the final word goes to our champs, Adam and Una. Anything you’d like to say? Open mic to the JavaScript world and web development friends. What do you wanna say? Anything you want.

My open mic is if you haven’t checked out CSS in a while, a lot has changed in the last three years. There’s a lot of really powerful new capabilities. We are having a new season launching a little bit later this year, maybe soon… But that’s my call to action, is if you haven’t explored what’s new in CSS, it’s probably gonna blow your mind. So take some time to do that.

Very good. Adam. Anything to add or subtract?

I want to know how many tentaclees y’all would give Wild Turkey, Whiskey Web and Whatnot.

Well, it really depends on which one.

I mean tentacles. I just wanted to say tentaclees. Oh, is there multiple-colored labels? Then the label that’s the cheapest.

Oh, okay. So the bourbon 101. I actually think it’s really decent for like about a $25 whiskey… So for me, I like them a little spicy. I’d give it seven tentacles.

Seven tentacles on a Wild Turkey. Alright.

I like it. I come back to it.

That’s pretty good.

Seven out of eight, I assume. Wow. There you go, Adam.

Oh yeah, I’m supposed to keep talking after that. Oh, my bad. I like y’all show. It’s really good. The Whatnot’s good, the whiskey is good, your guests are good… Y’all do a good job posting that, so I’m happy to meet you in-person here. I just – everybody, go own your content. Make an RSS feed if you don’t subscribe to RSS. Go get it. Go find people. It’s really nice, direct to your people. No overlords, no gardens, just straight up content. Email newsletters are good, too. I don’t know, we’re in a good point in time where you can own it and deliver it right to people’s hands. It’s pretty cool, so… Check that out.

Alright. Well, on behalf of our awesome contending podcasts, I’m Jerod Santo, this is JS Party. This has been Frontend Feud. Thanks so much for hanging out with us, but that’s all for this time. We’ll be back with another Frontend Feud at some point, but we need to find somebody who can beat the CSS Podcast. That is all for now, but we’ll see you again on the next one.


Our transcripts are open source on GitHub. Improvements are welcome. 💚

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