Develop a high-performance mindset

So we’re back. This is Brain Science, Mireille, and it’s good to see you again.

It’s great to see you, too. It’s been a while.

It’s been a short minute… And I think like anything in life, whenever you make commitments, whenever you create something new, you have to think “Can I sustain this thing? Can I keep the clip that I’m going at? Is what I’m doing today sustainable for tomorrow?” And sometimes you have to ask those questions and make hard choices. And for us, things in your life, and things in my life and our business have gotten complex over the last couple of years… An apology to the listeners, but we had to push pause. But it was an actual Pause button, not a Quit button. It wasn’t Cmd+Q, it was just simply pause, which is a good thing. What do you think?

Yeah, yes indeed. I mean, having worked with a lot of people over a number of years, decisions are a thing. And I’ve often said “When you don’t know, you don’t go”, and so that really gets at pause. We had a number of things, for you and for me, that complicated what we were doing. And so just taking sort of like a long breath…

Yeah, for sure.

…because the desire hasn’t waned.

No. I think the desire has been there for the listenership, and I think the desire has been there for us.. And I’ve gotta give a shout-out to many people over the last months and years who have just reached out about the show, saying, “Hey, when’s it coming back? I love this show. It’s changed my mindset, it’s changed how I think about decisions.” That show, “Your choice is your superpower”, to me that is a perfect show to share with people who don’t understand the power of their choice, and… It just helps people think differently. There’s a lot of different shows we could reference, and that was actually the challenge for me, because I was referencing our podcast when helping people, essentially. Like, “Hey, you would love this show, and I’m sad that it’s on a hiatus. However, the catalog that is there is so fruitful, so please go listen.” But telling people to go listen to a podcast that’s on hiatus is kind of challenging, because you kind of feel embarrassed as the maker and creator of it… It’s different if you’re just a fan, but…

Yeah.

…I just found myself referencing the show, often.

Yeah, I couldn’t agree more; a huge shout-out, and thank you to all the listeners… Because I’ve repeatedly been asked, “Are you going to do more? Are you gonna come back?” And just really important - I love being able to create and share, so that other people have these tools and skills. I think I’ve shared in other shows, about - like, working with people clinically, my goal is always to work myself out of a job. That much of where people get stuck is simply running out of a knowledge base to work from. And they think that there’s only two options. So I would hope that we can continue that journey; that people have more tools and skills and ways to think about things throughout their lives, to evaluate where they want to go, what’s important to them, and really cultivate the life that they want to live.

I can barely count the amount of times I’ve said, “Be your own scientist”, things like that that we have said on this podcast several times; I just have referenced several things we’ve said. And it’s good, but it’s also quite sad, because it hasn’t been here. But part of our conversation today is on a high-performance mindset. Not just simply habits, not just simply the way you think, but some sort of framework, some sort of lessons in that.

I think one of the things of being a high performer, or having a high-performing mind, or mindset, is knowing what you can control. And I think for us, when it came to this show, we knew we couldn’t control the cadence that was going on, and things like that. And so just as a trait, maybe a somewhat segue to the actual topic that we plan to talk about today is just that, is knowing what you control, and operating around that. And just knowing what you can and can’t do within a certain boundary. I think that’s awareness, right? That’s grounding, that’s being present in your choice… It’s a lot of different components in a larger lesson, but knowing what you can control is a huge key for high-performance.

Yes. Yes, indeed. What comes to mind when you say that is actually like being more reflective. So we don’t have awareness without reflecting upon things. So looking at patterns in your life, to go “How is this working?” It’s even interesting, in day to day there was a situation wherein I was asking for feedback with like “How is this working? Is it really achieving the goal that we want?” And going, “Yes, maybe no…”

Tell me…

Right. But giving the opportunity to evaluate. And so to step back and look at things from different angles, to go, “Is this really working?” And I think so much of what’s fun in life is to be able to repeatedly examine things, and go, “What are the variables involved with X decision, what I’m doing, where I’m investing my time, my energy?” Because you can pivot at any point in time, and knowing that fulcrum around “Here’s the 2, 3, 5 variables that I have charge over to manipulate.” I think that’s incredibly empowering, and exciting, because you can go, “Oh my gosh, I’m not stuck. Here’s a different way we can look at going.”

[00:06:17.26] Is being high-performance predicated on, say, your attributes? Your beauty, your height, your muscle, all the different things that people seem to have vanity around, or feel insecure about when they look in the mirror, or when they judge themselves? Are those things the important things for high performance?

I wouldn’t say that those are the things, because those aren’t within your charge; at least not completely. Because I would say, very much like athletics, there’s a training. So if we’re going “What does high performance look like?”, it’s learning how to actually perform. And so there’s aspects of really how you think… Remember, we’ve talked about neurons that fire together, wire together…

Yes…

So our brain is this complex system of pathways that we’ve practiced. And so the more you do a thing, the more your brain runs that same play. And so high performance has a lot more to do with the way that you think, and sort of the things that you practice over and over and over again.

I’m forgetting the reference, but this is true in athletics, that generally speaking, the people who are incredibly successful have done really well at practicing fundamentals over and over and over and over again… Because the body and the brain sync together, so that they just have that one tenth of a second speed to be able to do it faster than somebody else, because they’ve done it more often.

Yeah. No hesitation. I think that’s something that Kobe Bryant, that was really well known for getting up super-early, not practicing once in a day, but more like four or five, or I don’t know how many – like, it was an obscene amount of numbers. It was a lot. Way more than his teammates were doing. And his reason was simply that - the more I practice these simple things, the easier and more routine, and really more just instant reaction they become when it comes time for the actual game. And also, the more shots and goal, the more practice - he’s like “I’ve got way more hours than everybody else on the court”, and he would challenge his teammates to be there as early as he would, and there’s anecdotes about teammates saying they can never do it, or they had challenges, or that they’ve only practiced them once… So you can see how the routine of practice, the routine of building a skill - while that’s physical, that’s a physical skill, there’s still a lot of mental in there, because it’s hand-eye coordination, a lot of different things involved there… But it’s an example of being able to practice a skill to the point where it’s just simply reactive. It’s just a natural reaction whenever things happen.

Yeah. Yes, indeed. And I think about just the effort people continue to put forth… It’s really this perspective to make somewhat boring things fun. And then with that, incremental progress. So there’s a goal setting mindset of like “Oh my gosh, if I can do this… I was so close, I got to C threshold, when it’s like, oh my goodness, if I do ten more, I can get to that next level, and hit that skill.” And I think that’s really important, because you have to care about the thing that you’re looking to excel at. Like, it has to have some sort of meaning for you, that it’s like “I’m going to embrace the suck, so to speak, so I keep going in the face of being tired, willpower”, all those other things that that desire towards a goal is going to keep you pushing.

[00:10:03.14] Yes. Very hard to push through whenever you’re tired, though. I think that’s a challenge for I think me in particular, when things get hard and I’m already tired, and they get double hard. But that’s the chance to react a certain way whenever the task at hand seems insurmountable, unachievable. What do you what do you do?

I pull the “some thing” over the “no thing.” [laughs]

Okay…

So if I can just start, or do something for two minutes, then I’m not creating more of an obstacle mentally with doing whatever I’m seeking to do. Like, can you just get up? Can you just go start to write? Go spend two minutes in front of the computer, or writing in your notebook? Whatever it is, just start. And again, it’s still reps. If I did two reps, that’s more than none.

For sure. Yeah. I think in conversations preparatory for this there was a book that you referenced that I actually had in my library, that I had not listened to, and I believe it’s “High performance habits”, if I recall correctly, from Brendon Burchard.

Yep.

And there was like a framework he had shared, and the reason why I asked you the question around physicality, and all these other attributes is he basically determined that it was not true. That it was really about the things you did, versus the things you have. So they weren’t innate abilities…

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Go back.

Okay.

That was so, so big. You said “not the things you have, but the things you do.”

Yes. It’s more about the things you do than the things you have. And it was how you react to certain things. And there was a list he gave… I wrote them down, so maybe we can use this as at least a buffer of sorts, but he said “Seek clarity.” These high performance habits, one of the habits is “Seek clarity.” We’ve said this before; clarity is so key right? In communication, for yourself… Make the unclear clear, in whatever ways it may be, whether it’s a communication pattern with a friend, or a loved one, or yourself… I mean, how you speak to yourself more clearly is certainly more helpful on being clear about where you want to go. And that leads to what you want to optimize for.

Second, he said “Generate energy, raise necessity, increase productivity, develop influence, and demonstrate courage.” And having been in the military, that was in our thing - to be a leader, one of the things was you had to build courage, and it was be courageous in the in the face of uncertainty. So it was something that’s just built into me, to be courageous in moments when it’s just like bleak, you know what I mean?

[laughs]

So I can attest to that one, at least.

I love that. I mean, all of those are so good. And actually, in another article - Harvard Business Review did a sort of “10 best reads on high performance”, and one of the articles highlighted this, for clarity, but really more in terms of goal setting. And I think that that’s part of the fun, and the action item for our listeners, is going, “Can you get clear about your goals and get specific?” I mean, for some people – obviously, as we’re coming towards the end of the year, beginning of a new year, health tends to be at a lot of people’s forefront… So the difference would be “Can I get in better health?” Really general, not clear. So that’s like “I want to go to the US.” Well, where? For how long? What does that look like?

So having the clarity about where you want to go… And I would add in a really sort of nuanced piece of “How do I want to feel with achieving that goal, or having that clarity?” Because remember how much our feelings play a role in our decision-making and our memory? And that that’s going to be a driver when you’re tired? You’re like “Yeah, but if I can remember this is the way that I want to experience myself, or that trip”, or whatever it is, it’s going to help pull you when you want to avoid it.

[00:14:09.22] Well, we did a show on clarity, if you recall. It was called “Clarity and expectation”, episode 29. Just a few back. That was a good one, too. The opening line was “When you lack clarity, or have uncertainty for a direction or a goal, it’s going to be difficult to succeed.” You’ve got to have clarity.

Yep, it is. So I would challenge you though - what do we tell someone when they’re not clear?

Be your own scientist, right? Start collecting data… I would say, for me, the line really is clear for me when I say “What am I optimizing for?” Am I optimizing for – even a trip with family. It’s like, I’m a dad, I want to control things, I’ve got to keep them safe along the trip, all these different things… And there’s only so many things I can control. I’m gonna regulate my emotions, and all that good stuff. But I’m like “Man, what is our goal here? What are we trying to do? Where are we trying to go?” And if you know what you’re optimizing for, I think that’s super – that’s the beginning of clarity, for me, in most cases. What am I trying to do? What is my real goal here?

I like the things you’ve said before, which is “Try it on.” I love that. I’ve done that so many times since learning that lesson like, and I love this show because of that, because it teaches me just as much as it probably teaches our audience what to think about. And for me, big decisions and clarity - have I tried it on? Have I examined what it really feels like, as much as I possibly can, in simulation, in my own brain, to say, “What does this decision actually result in when I make it? How are other things affected when I do this thing?” I think for me, that’s what gives me clarity, is when I start to almost dream the real; make what is not real real as much as I possibly can. But it begins with “What am I optimizing for?”, and then being able to just examine that choice more clearly, to sort of try it on, as you say.

Isn’t one of the things you mentioned Brendon said was “Generate energy”?

Energy is key.

Yeah. So part of that too relates to this developing clarity. To develop clarity, I want to be attentive around the things that give me energy, that breed more. Right?

Right? What takes away my energy? Yes.

Exactly. So when you think about what are the activities, or places, or people that just feed me, and that I just have more energy after being around them or doing them? It’s really interesting even in looking at occupations and what people do, and that when they’re sort of on the cusp of burnout, that it might seem antithetical to go, “Oh, I’m gonna go work more.” But there are these ways, and it might not be related to your actual day job, but similar, wherein it does feed you and gives you the energy so that it actually mitigates that direction of burnout that you’re struggling. Because, again, it’s like, it’s oxygen. And when I think about it – like, the question that comes to mind would be like “How do I know? How do I tell when that’s there?”, and it’s like, think about the things you can’t stop talking about. Think about the things that it’s like “Yeah, I’m always gonna want to do that.”

For sure. Yeah. What’s got your full attention, that somebody else would be like “Yeah, tell me more about that”, and you just cannot stop talking to them about it. But I think energy is sort of key, because without energy, obviously, we don’t have energy, and so we need that to move forward, to be excited, to be motivated, to be curious… So it’s a key part.

But again, back to this “Is it an innate ability, or is it something that you can sort of practice and learn?” And I think energy is not something you just simply have, it’s something you cultivate, right? It’s something that you be aware of. Like, we’ve said, the “No a-hole rule”, for example, is a good book. Knowing people that are around you that take rather than give, that pull you down, rather than lift you up. And so if you’re examining ways to kind of maintain or increase your energy, locate the things that take all of your time, locate the things or people that take all of your energy, and you’ll begin to get back margin in order to have.

[00:18:23.01] Yep. Now, the other thing that I can’t help but talk about as we’re talking about energy is perspective, and taking the long view. I would say that a high-performance mindset always has the long view in mind. And so it helps manage some of the energy, or going, “Gosh, I’m really tired”, or “I’ve gotten hit a number of times”, not literally, but like emotionally, “in doing whatever dream I have, or goal I’m trying to set, and I just want to give up.” But if I’m like “Yes, but the long view.” Or “This happened, and this happened, and this, and I’m just feeling beat down”, it goes “Yeah, but I always say, when things feel the hardest, when it’s like oh my gosh, I have nothing left, I must be so headed in the right direction, because there would not be this much opposition if I wasn’t headed the right way.” And again, then I reevaluate and go “I must really want this, because I’m really willing to endure it.”

Right. Yeah, sometimes pain is the indicator, right? It’s like “Wow, I’m really feeling it here. I’m feeling beat down.” And I guess perspective-taking really is key there, because perspective really is everything. It really is. I’m reminded again and again a small anecdote, I would say, and it’s semi-unrelated… We live in a small town now; we moved from where we used to live closer to Austin. We’re living just outside of Austin in a town called Dripping Springs… And it’s a very, very small town here. It’s sub 5,000 people; maybe even less, I don’t even know. Maybe 7,000 people, but it’s small. And there’s a small pizza shop in the area, and it seems like in every other way it should be considered a hole in the wall kind of place; like, not expensive pizza, small staff, no glitz and glamour, no delivery… You literally go there and get the pizza, or you don’t get the pizza. So not a lot of frills. And in a lot of ways you would see it as a hole in the wall. And the perspective shifted for me, not because I thought that, but I thought it could be. So I was evaluating the quality level of this pizza shop. And as any new small town, you’ve got to have at least one good, trusted pizza shop nearby, because you can’t always make dinner, and sometimes you need a B plan. And for me, the perspective was whenever I met the owners. And they’re such a sweet – their mom and dad, but they’re older; they’re probably in their 50s. But they are the only two working there, they’re husband and wife, and they’re super-sweet, and I just see everybody that talks to them love them; they care for them. There was a birthday party there, and the person came up and said, “Mr. Lee, thank you so much.” And so for me, perspective is like, you can have this assumed belief based upon the book cover, the inside jacket, the color of the book, the typeface they used to design it, all these other things… Like, all these things can give you an assumption, but the perspective shifted for me about the quality level of this place and what it means to the town when I knew who was involved and behind it. And so for me, now I’m like “This is the best pizza shop, because this place has heart”, and that was the perspective shift for me.

That’s huge. That’s huge. Well, and I would say that really how you treat people also matters. In terms of high performance, some people can be “Perform, but off the field”, maybe not so much; it’s like, there is a consideration for others amidst that. And that not everybody’s in the same place. Like, thank God that these individuals are like “I want to settle here, so we can start this pizza shop, so people can have a plan B”, because we all need that.

[00:22:09.29] Precisely. Precisely.

Yeah, I think how you perform on and off the field is certainly key. And your personality, too. Because that goes back to the whole “Are you somebody who gives or takes the energy away, or gives her takes the motivation away?” Because if you are gung-ho, and then somebody comes in the room and you can feel that energy shift… And we’ve talked about that before with mirror neurons, and things like that - these are all things that come into play, and like we are electrical, chemical beings that just can’t help but push our energy around. Like, it’s just natural for us. We are built on energy. But you see somebody come in a room, and you see things shift, and you see things change because of just an energy.

Yep. So I think about it, like, in the workplace and working with teams, right? And so maybe somebody like hits it out of the ballpark. Say they’re in sales, and they just crush it. But you know, they also have a negative impact on the rest of the team because of the manner in which they go about crushing it. I mean, I can use examples from – I think I’ve shared, but I’m on the sidelines of a soccer field often throughout the weekend, and I had a little 11, 12-year-old kiddo totally taunting parents at a game recently, and I was like “Oh, my goodness…”

Whaat…?

Yeah. Yeah. The ref did have a sidebar conversation with said child… But these are like qualities, characteristics, and the reason I bring it up is because it can detract from team’s high performance. Because from a leadership perspective, you can go “Why are we tolerating this?” It’s sort of like “I’m going to accept bad behavior for the sake of the goal.” So maybe another way that we look at it is even like a sense of integrity around values and what you’re committed to, and what you’re willing to pay to reach that high performance.

Yeah. Sometimes you flex, and you give people a chance to change, and I guess in this 11-year-old’s case hopefully he does change, or he or she does change, because eventually they’ll become an adult and have a different brain, and all that good stuff… But in a different setting, you give people the benefit of the doubt; you give people permission to mess up, and second, third chances potentially. But if they’re complete and utterly toxic, it’s a first time “No go, you’ve gotta go.” Almost immediately when it’s extreme toxicity, there’s no line for that.

Yeah, so I would maybe go high performance, sort of that mindset is evaluating and sort of looking at what you’re bringing to the teams that you’re around. And it doesn’t have to just be in the workplace. I mean, we can look at this in terms of families, couples, diads, like, what are you trying to do. Because to your initial point about control, it matters the things we have charge over. And I’m not in charge of team members. I am definitely not in charge of my kids and their choices. I can influence them, by all means… But that really is key, and sort of learning to work with other people and flex, so that you reach that best possible outcome that you want.

How does focus play a role in high performance?

Well, remember, you’re gonna feed whatever it is you focus on. And I think about this a lot, having worked with so many people with ADHD, who have trouble focusing… And I’m always filtering information, and evaluating, and going “That’s important, disregard this, prioritize that”, yadda-yadda. But when you’re distracted or you don’t have that focus, it again takes away from the speed in which you achieve things and where you’re going. I mean, sort of like imagine I have my shopping list, and it’s like, here’s the things, either be it for the holidays, or the grocery store. But then you start like window shopping, or like just lollygagging through the different aisles - you’re apt to find a lot of things you didn’t plan on purchasing.

Never happens to me. Never.

[laughs] Especially not in Target. Ever.

And I’m being serious. I’m not even boasting, but I’m being very serious. Like, I make lists before I go into stores. I make lists before I go into the virtual stores. Like, if I go to Amazon, it’s specific. It’s not “Let me browse a genre or a section.” Now, if I’m doing research, or evaluation, or things like that, then yes. But the list, which is, I think, a key to focus - like, if you understand where you’re trying to go, it’s almost a map, right? I’m going from this place, to this place, this place. And when I go there, I’m not picking up extras. Now, if I do get more than I went for, it’s because I forgot to put it on my list.

Yes, that’s awesome. But it really highlights how important the focus is, because again, with a list, you spend time to do it in advance, but then you’re clear in the objective, completed it, and then can move on to other things, so that you’re achieving the other aspects in your life that you want to do.

Yeah. I feel for me focus is key. And maybe that’s a lesson we bring back to bringing back this show, because

we weren’t able to focus for a bit on this endeavor, despite having tremendous enjoyment, tremendous appreciation for the thing. But we were able to see the long view well enough to say it’s okay to pause. And if it comes back, it comes back. It was never a forever go away thing for me. It was always “Let’s recollect our situations and come back when we can have focus.” Because if you don’t have focus, you meander; as you said, you pick up extra items at Target, you end up window shopping, and potentially you start dreaming about the things that you don’t have. Either you’re not in the present, you can’t be thankful for what you have, and those kinds of things, which I think keep you grounded in your clarity of what your actual goals are, versus this sort of dream and resentment of things. And next thing you know you’re unhappy, or depressed, because you’ve let the wrong attention in your brain come back. Meanwhile, you should focus on that list and only go in for what you came for.

[00:34:02.24] Right. So I would say – I mean, be vigilant around your focus. I mean, there are so many things that compete for our attention in today’s world. And so if you’re not deliberate, just like sort of drifting… If I’m not tethered or anchored in some sort of way, I’m just going to drift. And to perform is literally going “Well, what am I performing in? What is it that I really want to achieve, and then being deliberate?”

I mean, if I don’t care about – gosh, pick something… I’m not likely going to spend much of my time, energy or my mind investing in that lane. I mean, I could use the example of golf. I don’t golf. People love it, I think it’s probably a great sport… I don’t spend time golfing, not even putt-putt. There’s a little bit of golf, or a lot around where I’m at now…

Very common. Yes, very common in your area to be golfing.

Yeah. And that’s okay. And I’m so grateful that there are other people who do enjoy it, because this is how the world goes round, and different people are invested in other things… But going, “What are the things that I’m really about? Can I identify the things I really value?”

I mean, we even do this within our family, and talking about it with our kids. If somebody asked you, what would you say our family is about? Because I want to get them thinking, and noticing that, because – I mean, really, more than anything, like, for us with raising our kids I want my kids to be able to think critically. And I’ve given examples; I’m like “If somebody tells you that the sky is purple”, and it’s sun shining and blue, that you can be like “Hmm, maybe not.” Not just taking everything at face value. And so our thought life is valuable time spent reflecting on and looking at that, as well as how we’re feeling in different settings and endeavors that we’re doing.

This aspect of your family and the direction as like mission-minded is something we said in the military a lot. “Are you mission-minded, soldier?” Because if you were in your unit, or your crew, or whatever it might be, and you don’t know what your mission is - well, are you really part of the team? And it could be a solo team; like, this could be transplanted from individual to multi-member teams, is being mission-minded. The list, the focus. These are all sort of synonyms to the same.

Being mission-minded, I think, is super-cool, especially in a family, because you know, my kids can’t follow unless I’m leading them in a direction that says, “This is where we’re trying to go.” When somebody asks you about our family, where we’re trying to go”, maybe there’s one right answer, but maybe there’s just a directional right answer, right? Like, we are about x, and this is what we do, and this is how we work. And being very clear. That mission-mindedness is key for individuals and for teams.

And I love that you bring that up, because with each mission too there’s opportunity for learning, right? I mean, there’s like sort of short-term missions, and then a longer pole mission, right? Like, you had a mission being part of the military, to serve and protect. But then there were smaller missions that supported that initiative. So in the same way, how do we look at doing that across different aspects of our life? Like, “Here’s our broad sweep, and then here are the mini-missions, and how do we respond to challenges that emerge as we’re going forward?”

[00:37:53.00] Mm-hm. In terms of resources, I’m sure we have a couple episodes we can mention as resources to dig further… But one you mentioned was the Harvard Business Review, there was a book that you had held up before the call. What was that book? Can people get that? Is that exclusive to folks like you, who are just like brainiacs?

[laughs] No. And in fact, I caught this on a trip, in one of the nice stores in the airport. So it’s a Harvard Business Review, they put out a number of their 10 best articles on a particular topic, so this just happened to be on high performance.

So it’s 10 different articles from the Harvard Business Review on high performance. Okay, cool.

Yep.

And so we’ll find the link, if we can, for the Internet to go check that out. And then I mentioned them, but you also mentioned/reminded me “Hey, have you heard of, or read, or listened to this book?” Because I listen to books more often than I read them, “High performance habits” by Brendon Burchard. So we’ll link that up as well. I recommend that. He gives a great framework, and I think, if anything, for me, he opens it up with the fact that these are not innate abilities you have that make you be high-performance; it’s the things you do. And I may have stolen his words, I don’t know. That’s probably why I liked them. Because I listened to it, and my memory baked it in, so now is it mine or is it his? Well, I heard it somewhere, so now it’s mine.

But he gave a great overview of what it is that you do, rather than what you are in initializing your life; whether it’s God-given talent, or beauty, or whatever it might be that gets you to certain places, or skill, muscle, or whatever it might be, that athleticism that is just natural… Well, those may be true in certain areas, very specific areas, but like in high performance, and like achieving goals and success, not so much as these other things that he talked about. So I loved that about his book.

And then we’ll find some links… I mentioned “Clarity and expectation”, I’m sure there’s a few others in our past catalog we can reference… But is there anything else we can share as a resource to take away?

Well, more to be continued in upcoming episodes.

More to be continued. And what can we expect from this thing we’re doing here? Is it – once a month I think we said we can do, which is, I think, maybe the lesson; like, if you do resume something, what can you commit to?

Yeah.

Having some sort of arbitrary deadline or arbitrary goal can be helpful in pushing resume on the hard things. And I think producing this show is hard. For me it’s challenging, because it’s a deep thinking hour(ish) of time. And that kind of is hard sometimes. Like, when you have so much else going on… Like, I don’t just talk in microphones around here, Mireille. I’m sure our listeners may or may not know that. And our listenership for this show in particular transcends changelog.com podcasts. We have primarily a software developer audience, primarily – I would say 100% primarily, except for this show. This is the only show that really reaches the mainstream. So if you’re listening to this and you’re a doctor, lawyer, policeman, police officer, whatever you might be, in some different land than software development, then welcome. Hello, thank you for listening to the show. But we do other shows that are really around software, and I would say curiosity around software development. So if you’re in that lane at all, go listen to those shows. But… Wow. I mean, it’s just so crazy to show up this show; it takes so much energy. That to me personally is what’s so hard for me, because it’s a big thinking show for me. It’s a lot of emotional investment into thinking through these things. They don’t come naturally; it takes research, it takes time… And it is just a challenging show to produce from that regard.

Yeah, but I love it. It all started with curiosity.

It did, yeah. I couldn’t stop it. I couldn’t stop – like, where are more resources on the brain that can help me think and understand more clearly?

Yeah. And I’ll share with our listeners, because that really highlights Adam and my first interaction, when we met, and going, “Oh, you listen to books?” He runs over and gets his phone, pulls out his Audible library, and I’m like, I pull up mine, and we start going through all of the different things we were reading.

Yeah. And I couldn’t believe it. I was like “Well, you are a psychologist, and you know all these things”, and I’m like “Wow, what do you know about this? What do you know about that?” and she couldn’t stop telling me, and so… I was like, “This should be a podcast, because I’m sure people would listen to my curiosity, and pulling things out of you, and potentially future guests…” And we just saw a world of opportunity with this.

But all that to say is that we are back, we have committed to once a month, so expect 12 episodes next year… No more, no less… I’m just kidding. Maybe there’s more, who knows…? But hopefully no less. And we both have busy lives. But we both deeply care about our listeners, and this show, and the material we can bring forth through it… We obviously have unstoppable curiosity, so that doesn’t change… It’s just a matter of being able to show up. And I think that’s really half the battle sometimes. Just showing up and delivering is so hard sometimes, when you have so many other things competing for your energy, your focus, your time… These things we talked about being high performance… So while this show may be a burden, it’s also very much a blessing.

Yes, I couldn’t have said it better myself. So I’m so happy to be back, and having these conversations, and continuing to be curious… Because I think that’s just what makes life so much fun, is just the relentless pursuit of learning.

Always be curious.