State of the "log" 2024

Alright, man, here we are. State of the ’log. Can you believe it?

I can’t believe it. You know, I listened to last year’s in prep for this one.

Oh. You did?

Yeah. I went to sleep to that last night.

You might be more prepared than I am then, because I did not do that.

I wouldn’t call that prepared, really. At first glance, as a consumer of podcasts, I looked at the chapter list, and it was like a voicemail, reaction to voicemail; voicemail reaction to voicemail. So the chapters weren’t really indicative of the content. That was okay. So it was a different vibe. But then also audibly a very different vibe. We did something different last year, and we’re going to carry it through this year, too… So we appreciate that.

Right. Well, we did some things different, we did other things the same. Listener voicemails, reactions to listener voicemails… That’s been a thing for a few years now. And then picking our favorites, as we’ve always done that… Only we’re going to hold off our favorites to the end. Now, I’m just going to foreshadow a little bit and I’m going to say this. I think you’re gonna like this.

Okay.

I’m going to do something unprecedented.

Oh, gosh.

When we get to our picks. Okay?

You’re going to have a list, an actual list that’s longer than mine?

This has never happened before, and it may never happen again.

Okay…

So there’s a little bit of a teaser. One thing I thought would be cool –

I’m not sure I like that, honestly.

…a little mini game.

Ooh.

Because our listeners are all going to pick their favorite episodes on their voicemails… And the question – and of course, you have some prepared. How many did you pick? Just give me a number… What’d you bring?

Uh, of favorite episodes?

Yeah, yeah.

15.

[laughs] Okay, 15.

I’m joking, because last year I said 11, and I actually – so because I just listened back, I laughed at myself, because you said “How many do you have?” and I was like… Dramatic pause, “11.” And it was a lot. 11 is a lot. So I was like “I’ve got to trump that number.” 15.

So 15. Alright. So in honesty, I have five favorites, four honorable mentions, and then I picked my favorite titles. I have, of that list, six. Best titles.

Oh, man.

So here’s the mini game. How many of our favorites are going to cross over with listener favorites? Meaning, if we were to scratch out our favorites each time they were mentioned by somebody else first, how many do you think we’ll have at the end? How many unique to you and/or me? Do your own, I’ll do my own. I have five favorites and four honorable mentions.

This number that we choose is a secret, too. We’re going to reveal it later.

No, we’re going to reveal it right now. It’s a mini game. We’re going to guess, and then we’ll see if we’re right.

Okay. I will say all of them.

All of them. So you have how many?

I’m going a hundred percent.

A hundred percent crossover, or a hundred percent unique?

Truth be told, I’m still making my list, okay?

[laughs]

Truth be told, I’m still making my list.

Oh, so you’re not repaired at all. Okay. So we can’t play this game, because your list changes throughout the show. Is that what’s happening?

That’s true. I can cheat. I can cheat. You know, the problem is there’s just so many good ones. So I started making a list and I was like “Okay, that was a good one. Okay, that was a good one. Okay, that was a good one.”

Right.

And I just had a really hard time making an actual list this year. Because there’s a lot of good stuff.

Alright. Well, mini game canceled, because your list changes throughout the show. Fair enough. There were a lot. And in fact, I did a SQL query… I think we have 101 episodes to pick from, between interviews and friends… So, I mean, it’s tough to pick five out of 101. Or even 15. Well, let’s get into it, shall we?

Let’s do it.

Alright. Listener voicemails. Thank you so much to our listeners. We have the coolest community. Even BMC just this morning was saying – let me see if I can quote BMC…

Breakmaster Cylinder…

[00:08:01.16] I was thanking BMC for making all these remixes, and telling him it makes this episode extra special for us and our listeners… And BMC said “I really like it. You’ve got a whole community thing going on”, which is kind of how BMC types. And that’s true. We have a cool community thing going on, and we appreciate that. It makes not just this episode awesome, but really what we do awesome. So thank you to everybody who called in.

We have 12 voicemails, same as last year, and we have one person who sent theirs in at the last minute. And if you listen to last year’s, you already know who that person is. We’ll save them to the end, because you know, they deserve it. So let’s get straight into it.

Our first caller in is A.J. Kerrigan.

[00:08:47.15]

Hi Adam, hi Jerod. It’s a mother rando named A.J. Kerrigan. There was a bit of a theme to some of my favorite episodes this year. They talked about taking control of your own workspace, your tools, your environment, and thinking through what’s important to you… And that could be starting at the hardware level, the lowest level. The interview with Kyle from iFixit, or with Erez from ZSA about customizable ergonomic keyboards… That’s building a solid base. And then moving up the stack to the OS, the Linux distros episode with Jorge Castro on Ship It was another fantastic one.

And what a lot of my favorite episodes this year had was some great Zulip chat. Moving to Zulip, the episode about Zulip, and then also seeing the Changelog community move to Zulip was a great experience. As a listener, it’s definitely much easier to keep track of chats now, and I love seeing the engagement from the Zulip team, hearing that hard P from Adam that now I’ve started doing, Zulip…

So thanks for another great year. I got a remix last year, so please do not bother including me this year. I just wanted to get some voice out to you all and say well done. I appreciate what you’re doing, being a Changelog++ subscriber, and I don’t see that changing… And I’ll see you all in Zulip going forward. Thanks!

Zulip. Good job, AJ. I like that. Oh, man… Zulip for the win. Zulip for the win.

For the win. Remixes for the win… So we appreciate you saying “Don’t remix this”, but you know we don’t take orders around here, AJ, and we do what we want.

It’s like saying when you edit that out, you’re going to leave it in.

Yeah, exactly. It’s like Mat Ryer saying “Edit that out.” You’re getting a remix, gosh darn it… But yeah. Okay, so you have a moving list of episodes, but I’m guessing iFix It, “We have a right to repair”, that had to be on your list, right, Adam?

It was. Actually, both of those were. Open source threaded team chat was on my list…

Yeah. So so far, 100% of AJ’s picks are at least your pick. I also had one of those, so… We may not have anything left at the end. And if you know the reference, Adam, some other rando, AJ was referencing our secondary theme song, our alt theme song, which is called “Your Favorite Ever Show.”

Yes.

And BMC took that reference and ran with it. Here is AJ Kerrigan’s BMC remix.

[00:10:59.27]

So dope.

[laughs] Oh, and the late… Was that a vuvuzela? The late siren…

You know, having heard that remix, I have to say that I have purposefully, behind the scenes, not listened to any of these… So that I can have, in the moment – I know you have, and I thank you for doing all the prep of this, all that behind the scenes love, care, attention, so that I don’t have to burst the bubble for myself. I can live in the moment in this podcast. So I appreciate that.

That’s right. You sit back, relax, and enjoy…

Yes.

…as Breakmaster Cylinder and I toiled over these… Although I did very little work; just criticism, as we went… And handing off of files and stuff like that.

Well, you had to create a type form, you had to promote it here and there, you had to talk to people in Zulip…

Oh, that’s true. You’re right.

That’s so much extra work involved. I mean, it is work though. It’s the nurturing process of the things.

Yes. Alright, thanks, AJ. That is awesome. Next listener, somebody new… Lots of familiar voices and names, but we have a new listener here calling in. Erno - now, you mentioned the type form. I do ask for pronunciation help. And this fellow’s name is, I believe, Erno, but his last name is Voutilainen, Voutilainen…? I don’t know. I don’t know how to say it. And under the pronunciation help, he wrote E, as in Enter, but I’m fine with any pronunciation. So he gave us help on the first name. Erno. But come on, man… I can’t pronounce Voutilainen. Let’s hear from Erno.

[00:13:17.20]

*Dear Adam and Jerod… Greetings from all the way from Finland, the land of the happiest people on planet, as you might know… Just to clear the myth up front, I think the reason for our happiness is just the fact that everyone must be listening to the Changelog, obviously… Or maybe it’s just me and I’m weird. But honestly and sincerely, I love what you do. I’ve been listening for a few years already, so I decided it’s about time to give you a personal hello and some cheers. *

And what was the kicker for me to reach out was the very first episode of the year, where you dropped in the new beats. Honestly, I was shocked, and I almost had to cry. They were so good, as Adam likes to put it. So gold. So back then, in January, I also decided to see if the famous recency bias is a thing, what Jerod wondered on the last State of the ‘log… And my conclusion for the year is that if it is recency bias, I’m also susceptible to it; or you, by chance, happen to put out the best content towards the end of the year. So who knows.

So a few highlights for me this year in addition to the beats were the reappearance of Cameron Seay on Changelog & Friends, episode 36. By the way, I love the Changelog & Friends format. Please keep them coming.

Then we’ve got Mat Ryer singing “If You Know It”, a modern classic… I almost choked on my coffee while listening to that for the first time. And finally, “Two tickets for departure”, Changelog Interviews 618. So thanks to you, I’m now a happy Departure Mono user on my terminal, and I’m loving it.

And I could of course include all the Kaizen episodes, the never ending TypeScript arm wrestles between Jerod and Nick, all of Adam’s home-labbing goodness, the DanTans, and the – well, you get the point. So thank you so much for what you do. You have indeed befriended me, and I’m here to stay.

Happy holiday season to you all, and all the success on those Pipe Dreams for 2025.

Thank you, Erno. Wow. DanTan… That’s like a deepcut now.

I was gonna say that… My gosh. I was being [unintelligible 00:15:18.24] I was gonna come in, right away, and say there were so many deepcuts thre. Really, there were. From DanTan, to the homelab stuff, to just… All the details, man. That’s cool.

And some good picks as well. Cameron Seay’s return to the pod…

So many good picks.

“Two tickets for Departure”, we have a Departure Mono convert… I’m not using Mono in my terminal, I tried it, and I’ve determined – maybe I shared this already. I’ve determined that I don’t like pixel fonts at the terminal level. I like it in the editor more, but for something in the terminal, it just looks a little too pixelated. So I’m over here on JetBrains Mono at this point… But that conversation actually got me to reevaluate my Monospace font of choices… And codingfont.com, which I put in News, and we were all playing with it… A lot of people chatting in Zulip were playing with that website. Very cool. It’s like a – not a hot or not, but what’s the…

Hot or not…

Like a Royal Rumble of fonts, where you put two fonts against each other, and then it swaps in another one and you just keep picking, picking. The [unintelligible 00:16:25.26] challenge, so to speak.

Yeah.

And you can determine without knowing the names of the fonts and the stories which one you actually like the best. And that one landed me on JetBrains Mono. But I don’t think – it’s not comprehensive. Departure Mono is not on there, for instance… Or at least it didn’t come up in mine. Anyways, should we hear Erno’s remix?

I would like to.

[00:16:48.13]

It almost sounds like he’s saying “For Lynda.” For Lyn, for Lyn, for Lynda. That could be like a new Finland anthem. You know, like maybe if they need a new national anthem, we could submit that one, perhaps… I think a theme will hit this year with the remixes, at least, that I know that you don’t know, because I’ve been listening to them as we go… I think BMC has some new toys.

You think so?

Yes.

Like AI? Like some – there’s more noises that don’t come from the words of our actual listeners this year.

Okay.

I think BMC’s playing – like, the Fin-lynda… That was not Erno. Or was it?

You know, it might be, actually.

I don’t know.

I don’t think so. I mean, you can really push the voice.

Yeah. Maybe just taking Erno’s voice and then just like really –

Stretching it, and then harmonics, timing…

Yeah maybe. Maybe.

It’s possible. We’ll have to see. We’ll have to get Breakmaster Cylinder on the pod, in the new year…

That’s easy.

…and discuss some stuff. Because that’s what we did last year. Well, we’ll probably have a new album next year, so there’s breaking news. We have been working on our fourth – do we call it a studio album, when the studio is Breakmaster Cylinder’s studio, by himself? I don’t know. It’s a new studio album, our fourth Changelog Beats… And it’ll be coming out next year. So… Teaser. And we’ll certainly get BMC on after that one drops, right?

Mm-hm.

Alright, listener voicemail number three… This is Don McKinnon.

[00:19:05.03]

Hey Jerod, Adam, and everyone at Changelog. My favorite episode of 2024 was the Changelog & Friends episode “From Chef to System Initiative.” I’ve been following Adam Jacob on social media for a while, and he’s always a great guest. So it was interesting to hear more about his career journey that led him to where he is now with his new company. And I did have to go back and watch “Any Given Sunday” after hearing that episode. I’d never seen it before.

*I also got a kick out of the “Rails is Having a Moment Again” episode. A lot of times I disagree with DHH, but regardless, he is always entertaining to listen to. Thank you for all the work you guys do on the podcast. It’s one of my favorites. *

See? These are all on my list, Jerod. Okay?

[laughs] So maybe you’re right, a hundred percent. We can just skip your section altogether at the end.

Yeah, maybe we could. I’d just be like “Just listen to the show.” That kind of thing.

Right.

But that was a good show. Like, I really wanted to do that show for a very long time.

The Adam Jacob show.

Yes, yes. Every time we had Adam on the podcast I found myself biting my tongue to go into those depths, you know… Because it wasn’t the point of the show, but I had curiosities. And I figured “Well, I’ll just be patient, because eventually we’ll get that time.” I guess the only sad thing is that it ended up on Changelog & Friends and it was more of an interview.

It was.

So it kind of broke the system.

Yeah you even called it a different kind of Friends episode at the opener… I’m like, “The kind of a friends episode that’s actually an interview?” Well, you know…

Sometimes you’ve gotta blur your lines, you know?

You have to. And I think that what I’ve learned from talking to listeners over the years is that their lines are very blurred for them… So much so that they don’t know the difference half the time. So it’s probably more on us, although Don sure noticed where it landed. I liked that episode a lot, too. Obviously, I wasn’t there, so I got to listen to it as a listener would… And I just loved some of the stories that came out, especially around the high school dropout move, the loophole, and some of the stuff early on in his career were fascinating to me. So good choice. And of course, DHH always delivers… And so that was a good episode as well.

I don’t want to call this out necessarily to try to embarrass Adam, but did you – do you recall the part in the show where he almost cried?

No.

It was the first time in my ever interview history or career or whatever you want to call it where I’ve actually gotten somebody… I don’t even want to say it like that. It’s not cool.

Right. You’re not getting them to it. It’s not like you’re trying.

Yeah, I’m not trying to do that. It’s just – I don’t necessarily want to make him cry, let’s just say. But I do want to hear the good stuff. And he was sharing this really raw, emotional part of the Chef history when he had to go out, and in quotes, or a version of quotes, paraphrase, command the troops. Get them excited. And he just shared how he went back afterwards into his office and wept. And in the moment of sharing that story with me he’s like “I’m like getting emotional”, he says. You know. And I’m there visually, which is why I’m desperately wanting this video version of our show… Because there’s things you miss.

Sure.

And as a listener of that show, you only hear the audio. As a person who’s there in the moment, we had to take a quick pause, because he was getting emotional. And the reason why I share that isn’t – it’s not to expose that necessarily, but to point it out because I got to see that. And I felt like that was a raw, real moment with Adam, in a conversation that was quite lengthy. It’s like two and a half hours, I think, real time; maybe two-ish hours, you know, produced. And that’s why I like doing podcasting, because you get that truly real, truly authentic, truly deep when you can go there kind of conversation, that can only really happen in a podcast like that.

You are the Barbara Walters of our –

Babwa Waltaz.

[laughs]

You like my impersonation?

That was good.

Babwa Waltaz.

Alright, Don. BMC, hook him up.

[00:23:15.08]

The goodness that Breakmaster Cylinder brings is just so good.

I love the little – is that like a cop cherry sound, like the cops are there? That’s what I’ve figured, when he gets kicked out of his company; like, he calls the police on him, you know.

Oh yeah, it’s – I don’t think it’s that. I think it’s that whistle, when you pull it out it elongates the sound, and when you push it in… It might be the same thing that we’re talking about, but.

Right, right, right. I wasn’t saying it’s actually that sound. I was saying, like, that’s what it’s reminiscent of. I’m wondering if BMC was trying to imply that Don McKinnon actually had to be arrested at System Initiative headquarters.

It’s quite possible, honestly.

That’ll make you cry.

That’s kind of possible.

Alright, moving on to longtime listener, and I believe new Changelog++ member, if this is indeed the same… Andrew O’Brien.

[00:24:44.01]

Hey, Jerod and Adam. Thanks for another year of great pod. Big thanks to Adam for giving me the push I needed to finally rewatch and finish Silicon Valley. Also, an apology… I’m sorry for ruining the whole Antarctic data center joke in one of your fly.io ads. I asked follow-up questions, and then it went away, so I feel responsible.

Anyway, here’s my message to anyone listening who has a professional development stipend to spend before year end. Everyone knows that Changelog++ is better, but what my theory presupposes is that it’s a membership that gets you more educational material, so work should pay for it. Fill out that reimbursement form and get that warm, fuzzy feeling for supporting independent tech media.

Thanks again, guys.

Now, there has to be an inside story on this Antarctic code vault… Do you know Andrew, and you were interviewing him for something, or…?

No. This is disconnected.

Okay.

So for a bit there, on the fly.io homepage it said – I can’t recall how many continents there are. Is there seven continents? I always forget. I’m too old to remember this stuff.

There are seven continents, aren’t there?

Right. I believe there’s seven. And they mention Antarctica coming soon.

Right.

I thought it’s a joke, and I started saying that as part of the, you know, “Big thanks to our friends at Fly and partners at Fly. Antarctica coming soon”, you know? And I think that’s what he’s referencing… And I didn’t take it away from that because he said something in Slack - I think it was Slack at the time.

Oh, okay. So he brought it up in Slack and ruined the joke.

Yeah. But he did ask if – I think it was him. And you know, Slack is a challenge, because like it’s hard to find the right people, I suppose, over the years… But I think Zulip’s a bit easier to catch with people, because you see the thread longer; that doesn’t go away, it’s not really ephemeral. So I don’t really recall the conversation in Slack necessarily, but I do recall the conversation around speculation of if it truly was going to be in Antarctica coming soon. We speculated whether or not there was, you know, servers down there, because there’s bases down there etc. If there truly is it down there, flat earthers…

[laughs]

So that’s what it was.

Oh, I thought you were gonna keep talking. You just ended it. You just mic-dropped on the flat earthers.

I dropped it on the flat earthers, man. Yeah.

So a couple of things… First of all, great idea. Thanks for promoting, Andrew, the concept of having your employer pay for your Changelog++ membership. I mean, come on. This is continuing education at its core, is it not?

I mean, I think that’s awesome. Do it more of it.

Great idea. Everybody who thinks of it thinks “Why not?” If you haven’t thought of it, hopefully now you’ve thought of it. It’s a win-win-win-win. I will shout-out to Andrew for what I think is a Royal Tenenbaums deepcut in the middle of one of his sentences. He says “My theory presupposes”, which to me sounded very much like Owen Wilson on Royal Tenenbaums talking about “Custer dying–” I’m going from memory. It’s like, everybody knows that Custer died at the Battle of Little Bighorn, something like that… But what my book presupposes is maybe he didn’t, something like that.

[00:27:41.14]

Well, everyone knows Custer died at Little Bighorn. But this book presupposes is maybe he didn’t.

So Andrew, if that’s indeed your reference - reference acknowledged, friend, and you have a Royal Tenenbaums fan here… If not, then I just completely read into something that didn’t exist. And either way, go check out Royal Tenenbaums. Good movie.

I’ve never watched that movie, I have to confess.

Do you like Wes Anderson?

Maybe.

Okay.

What kind of movies has he directed?

Um, Royal Tenenbaums…

Okay, that’s a good one. Well, I guess we’ll find out.

Bottle Rocket, Fantastic Mr. Fox, The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou…

This is all from memory?

Yeah, I’m a fan. I’m a Wes Anderson fan.

Good. Wow, I’m proud of you.

You’re welcome.

I though you quickly LLM’d yourself, or something.

No, I’m just going from memory.

Wes Anderson…

He has a very specific style, a very specific taste, and all the same characters, like Owen Wilson, Luke Wilson, Bill Murray, Angelica Houston… These people – Jason Schwartzman… He has all the same actors - George Clooney - in his movies all the time. And I’ve just watched Fantastic Mr. Fox with my family a few weeks back, and that movie completely holds up. I just utterly enjoyed it.

I’m gonna have to circle back… So I resisted the The Royal Tenenbaums…

Mm-hm.

I thought it looked maybe strange… Also, 2001 wasn’t a year I was watching a lot of movies.

It is strange. It takes a specific taste. I think you either love Wes Anderson movies or you hate them, because they’re shot in a specific way… In fact, Adam Lisagor - here’s another foreshadow - and I were talking about how I felt like his commercials, like a lot of the Sandwich films were borrowing prompts… Not prompts, but homages to Wes Anderson. He’s like “Yeah, totally.”

Wow.

He shoots in a very – his choreography… It’s amazing. But it’s also like very opinionated and specific. And so if you don’t like that style… And the humor is very subdued, and somewhat intellectual, and so it’s not like a Tommy boy, you know. It’s like, it gets funnier the more you think about it, but the first time you hear it, like, “This is ridiculous. Like, it’s just so stupid.” So I’m not saying that you’ll necessarily love Royal Tenenbaums, but if you watch it, it’s well-made, so you’ll at least appreciate the craft. And if you enjoy it, there’s a whole bunch of movies waiting for you.

Just like it. Or versions of it.

Yeah.

I do recall the Grand Budapest Hotel being promoted…

Yeah.

Was that a good one?

That’s a good one. It’s not my favorite. I think Tenenbaums is a more approachable movie to start with.

Okay.

Fantastic Mr. Fox, because it is animated…

Okay.

Great music, by the way. It’s very approachable.

Kid-friendly?

Yes. We watched it with our whole family. There are a few things that are like adult things, but they just fly right over the kids’ head. It’s not like the whole movie’s like that, but there are moments where you’re like “Hmm, this is kind of mature”, but the kids just don’t notice it.

This isn’t the best place to go for this, but it’s one of the places I go to it, but if I want to know if I can trust this for my kid, I do use IMDB’s section where it talks about parental spots. It’s like, as you scroll the profile page for a movie title, there’s a section that talks about the different things that appear in the movie, specifically for parents to, you know, gauge whether they should or should not. Like nudity, violence etc.

Yeah, there’s also like specific websites that are watching… One that I don’t know if it’s good anymore, but used to be good was called “Kids in Mind”, and they actually watch and review movies with kids in mind. And they will tell you almost to an extreme level every single thing that happens that might be something you might want to know about prior to the kids watching it… And so in the past I have used that. I know there’s other ones.

Do you recall a female in the movie being called the town tart in her youth?

Yeah.

Okay.

[laughs]

They highlighted that as sex and nudity.

Right.

Which is cool. It’s called the parental guide.

She’s the town tart?

She’s the town tart.

That goes right over their head, doesn’t it? They’re like, “What’s a tart? Why would the town have a tart? Like pop tarts? What are they talking about?”

Yeah, sure. Pop tarts are sweet.

Alright, so anyways… We could have just created an entire tangent around something Andrew wasn’t referring to. But if you were indeed referring to a quote from Royal Tenenbaums, reference acknowledged. Alright, here is Andrew’s Breakmaster Cylinder remix.

[00:32:06.02]

And you should.

So many so many dings.

Well, I told BMC you literally can’t have enough dings.

Literally cannot.

So yeah… I mean, in a sense, maybe we have ruined Silicon Valley. But also, maybe –

I don’t think so.

…in a sense we brought it back.

Yeah, I think we’ve been responsible for a lot of HBO subscriptions.

I think so. We should get an HBO Max affiliate code, or something.

We really should.

Like, every time you stream that, there should be a royalty; like an Adam and Jerod royalty.

I would just take a 4k version of the entire series.

You don’t have that? They didn’t shoot in 4k, or…?

Well, if you recall - Christina Warren, if you recall, she and I… Or at least she was, and we were both lamenting, or at least I was lamenting this… These studios purposefully withhold the higher resolution versions on disc. They make you subscribe to the service to get the higher resolution. So there’s lots of Seinfeld even, I believe, in like DVD quality. Like, come on. For real?

Yes.

Not even Blu-ray quality. DVD quality.

You’re about to get Rage Monster out. Let’s not do this.

I’ll tone it down. Hold still.

Yes.

This is supposed to be a happy time, you know? State of the ’log.

It is supposed to be a happy time. But I don’t believe that we’ve – Breakmaster Cylinder, we did not ruin Silicon Valley. Thank you for the dings.

No, Andrew O’Brien ruined it. He feels responsible.

Did he actually say that in his actual voicemail, though? I don’t think he did. Did he?

No. He said that you caused him to go watch Silicon Valley.

Right. And then BMC remixed his words.

That’s right.

Yeah. That’s what I was thinking.

I mean, that’s what you sign up for around here. It’s a remix, you know?

That’s right. We’re going to hijack what you say and make you say something different.

I mean, pretty much. Don McKinnon just told a story about how he got arrested at System Initiative headquarters, you know?

And he doesn’t agree with Adam.

I don’t think that really happened.

No, I don’t believe that happened at all. Let’s hope not. We’ll have to confirm. Silicon Valley…

Alright. Next up, an old voice, Jarvis Yang. I think Jarvis calls in every year, and gives us shout-outs, but also gives other people shout-outs. And this is no different here. Jarvis is going to shout-out us, as well as somebody else. Here he is.

[00:37:47.25]

Nyob zoo, Changelog. That’s hello in Hmong. As the year comes to a close, I wanted to give a big shout-out to both the Ship It podcast and Prime Digital Academy. When I started diving into DevOps, Ship It became my go-to resource. Gerhard, Adam and Jerod, you’ve all taught me so much and had a huge impact on my journey. Thank you for everything.

I also want to recognize Prime Digital Academy, which after 10 incredible years is closing its doors. Prime was where my second career in software development began, and it helped me through some of the toughest times in my life. It gave me an amazing, supportive community, and lifelong connections. A special shout-out to my at Bash cohort. Oh-ha-ha. And of course, to Mary and Christy. Thank you for being such inspiring mentors. It’s bittersweet to say goodbye to both Prime and the Ship It podcast, but the impact you’ve made will stay with me and so many others. Thank you for being such a big part of my journey.

There’s an obvious thing here, right? I mean, are you going to say that?

Go ahead.

What is Prime Digital Academy? [laughter] First time hearing about this… Did I miss something?

No, this was a bootcamp that Jarvis went to.

Okay.

And just like last year, Jarvis shouted out – I think it was like Minnesota Gophers, or something. He likes to give shout-outs. So he gives Ship It a shout-out, and then he gives Prime Digital Academy, which is a software engineering bootcamp that helped Jarvis launch his career. And it’s closing down after 10 years, and so there’s some alignment there with Ship It being retired now…

I see.

There. There’s your connection.

Okay, that makes more sense. I was like “Gosh…” I thought we were getting credit where credit was not due, or conflation… I was like, “What is going on here?” I’m down, I’m on the web page. Prime Academy.io, by the way. They’re in the mix of the IOs, that may get repurposed. We’ll see. And I’m on the About page and I’m like “Meet our team.” I’m like “I don’t know any of these people. Where is the connection? Please help me.” So anyways, that’s it.

So Jarvis then sent me this note in addition to the audio submission… “Glad to hear that Ship It is getting its spinoff, and looking forward to more of the dynamic duo, Justin and Autumn.” So yes, Ship It will have continuity. It will have a continuation, as a different pod, called FAFO. Fork Around and Find Out. And then he says for context “Ooh-ha-ha”, which you heard him say, “Ooh-ha-ha”…

Yeah I did hear him say that.

It was his cohort’s call-out on campus. So they would say that to each other. And so he’s given them a call-out.

Okay. Can I share a call-out that I used to do back in the day?

Ruha?

No, this is gonna be epic. This should be clipped. [00:40:29.19]

Wow.

That’s not my best rendition, but it’s a pretty good one.

Say more.

The context… I was in the military, of course, and the military is an alphabet, A through Z, just like anybody else… But V is Victor. So when I do the phonetic alphabet, at least the military version of it…

Alpha, Bravo…

Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo… All the things. You know, Foxtrot… All through V, which is Victor. And so I was in Victor company. And so every company is charged with creating their own thing to kind of get the hype; kind of like this Ooh-ha-ha thing, except for that one’s shorter. Right?

Yeah.

And so it was Victor company. V-I-C-T-O-R, Victor.

Love it.

Yeah.

You should send that to your old Victor company colleagues. What do you call them?

Troops, I guess… Soldiers…

Yeah, your fellow soldiers.

Yeah, fellow soldiers. But the – “You mess with the best, you die like the rest. Victor what, Victor what”, is the clincher.

Love it. Alright. Jarvis, remixed. Ooh-ha-ha.

[00:41:47.15]

There you go.

I don’t know about you, but I’ve got my scalp massager out… And I’m thoroughly, just thoroughly just relaxed.

[laughs] I was gonna say, it reminds me of like you’re about to get hypnotized. And they’re like “You are floating off into sleep…”

Yes.

“There are no problems in your life. You are weightless… As you float… On a cloud…” Yeah. Well, you know, even BMC has a softer side.

Yeah. I dig.

And so does Jarvis.

Yeah, I dig it.

Alright. We move onward and upward… Here’s Brett Cannon.

[00:43:13.26]

Hi, Adam and Jerod. Congratulations again on another banger of a year for the Changelog. For my highlights of 2024, to kind of breakdown the themes… Probably the first theme was hardware. Episode 608 for interviews, with “Building customizable ergonomic keyboards” with Erez Zuckerman of ZSA. I thought that was really cool, to hear their ethos and approach to making keyboards that last, and can last for a long time.

Interviews episode number 592, “From Sun to Oxide with Bryan Cantrill” was great just for the stories alone; also with what Oxide is trying to do with hardware. And then finally for hardware was interviews episode number 582, “We Have a Right to Repair” Kyle Wiens. I’ll also say that’s the most expensive episode for me personally, because it led to me buying an iFixit repair kit, and it has actually been very helpful. So thank you, Adam, for that recommendation.

The next theme is languages. No shock coming from me. Interviews episode number 611, “Free-threaded Python” with my friends Pablo and Łukasz from the Core.py podcast. It was obviously a lot of fun to hear someone else interview them for a change… And then also Changelog & Friends episode number 28, “Gradually Typing Elixir.” It was kind of cool to hear Jose talk about how Elixir is trying to bring in typing after having seen how Python tried to pull it off.

The third theme was operating systems. Actually, in Ship It episode number 122 with Linux Distros, with Jorge Castro, it was kind of cool to hear how Universal Blue is trying to use containers to make operating systems a bit easier to work with from a Linux perspective. And then it was great to hear “Let’s talk FreeBSD (finally)” from Changelog interviews number 574, with Allan Jude, because FreeBSD I don’t think gets enough play in the world.

Theme number four was apps, with Changelog & Friends episode 35 with Oban Pros. It was cool to hear Shannon & Parker Selbert talk about how they make Oban Pro work as a business. And also, personally, it was kind of a fun episode because it was the first time I was out for an extended walk with my son by myself, and trying to keep him calm with mom not around…

And then there was also “Why We Need Ladybird”, Changelog interviews number 604, with Andreas Kling and Chris Wanstrath, and how trying to make a browser is extremely hard.

And then finally, the fifth theme is people, and that was from Changelog interviews episode number 595, with Kelsey Hightower, talking about being retired but not tired, and just hearing Kelsey seemingly having a great time, no longer being constrained by the corporate world and getting to do what he truly wants to do.

Once again, congrats again for a wonderful 2024, and I look forward to 2025. Bye.

I’m thinking Brett just knocked out the rest of your list…

Well, I was pumping my fist on several of them, but I have to say that I’m not batting a thousand now. It’s a shame. There was two, or several, that were not on my list. And I’m sad now.

Well, he did pick 10 episodes, so… I mean he’s rivaling you in quantity.

Yes, true. Can we talk about BSD, or at least freeBSD?

Can we, or did we?

Can we, briefly?

Sure.

So I got excited about that afterwards. And I share Brett’s excitement too, but then I got sad, because it seems like freeBSD is just not getting the love, because it’s not the way I suppose Linux is, and there’s the lack of support for certain things… And it’s just hard. It’s just hard to use. And so I think it gets it has such good, pure intentions, but it doesn’t get the same love that Linux proper gets.

It gets the same love in what way? What do you mean love?

Well, obviously, Linux is one, over it, is what I mean by that… But I think –

Corporate love.

I think developer love, you know, really.

Investment.

Investment, potentially… But I believe – I can’t recall in this moment; I’ll have to go back in my links and find it. But I believe earlier this year there was talk about how freeBSD wasn’t supporting certain things, and they were falling by the wayside… And essentially, it seemed to me, if I was reading the tea leaves, like, pay less attention to it, because it’s just eventually going to always be this super-minority.

It’s a niche.

Yeah. I mean, you’ve really got to want to feel the pain, I suppose.

Right. Or have already overcome the pain. That’s why the reputation - and I brought that up, I think, on that episode… It’s that at BSD people are generally more expert, because they have to be, and it’s harder to use than Linux.

Not necessarily because it’s more complicated or wrong or anything, but just different… And a smaller community, so less helps, less investment, less support etc. So sorry to hear that, but there’s certainly people who love and use it, and build cool things with it.

That being said, you should check it out. I’m actually on hackaday.com, on a post from this year, and at the very end, just scanning it, says “freeBSD is here to stay.” So don’t take it from me. I am not steeped in all the things. I’m not a great –

Right. You just tried it, you hit some bumps, you saw some people saying it was not going to be supported for whatever you’re up to, and it’s like…

Precisely, yeah.

It’s kind of just the harder path in some cases than the straight – not the straight and narrow; than the mainstream path.

I mean, that being said, I did spin up ZFS, I did get a file server running, I did do all the things I intended to do…

Do you remember where you got stuck?

I didn’t get stuck. I didn’t actually have any issues with it, personally. But it was just this tension of what freeBSD was supporting, and what it wasn’t supporting, and how it was being supported… And then you’ve got TrueNAS, who moved away from freeBSD to basically a Debian, you know, version… And they’re deprecating – they’re sort of maintaining the freeBSD flavor, but TrueNAS scale is the future of TrueNAS. Not that they are the litmus test of freeBSD dying or not. It’s just like, “Well, if the people making a file system and a server can’t build their future on freeBSD, then who can? Where does it really fit?” And so that’s what was making me think “Well, maybe it’s just not worth my –”

It’s not that they can’t, it’s that they chose a different way.

Sure.

Yeah. Fair enough.

I had no problem with it. I loved it. It was actually kind of fun… Except it was limiting, you know, to me, at some point.

Now, do you recall Brett’s voicemail last year? You probably just listened to it last night while you were going to sleep.

Oh, yeah. Andrea. My wife Andrea.

Alright, good. Alright, here we go. Here’s Brett’s remix from this year.

[00:49:30.28]

[laughter] Oh, man…

So good. Where else would you get that kind of goodness in life?

I’m telling you…

I mean, you put your spoon into that cup and you’re coming out with goodness, okay? Yum, yum, yum. Okay, so I’m digging what Breakmaster’s doing on the voices stuff… That’s pretty cool. I want more of that in our life.

Right.

I feel like these are proving grounds for future coolness. I was also thinking - not this voicemail remix, but the one prior… It’d be kind of cool to also release a companion podcast, that’s just the voicemails, as chapters. Just like we did with the album. I don’t know if that would fit or not, but I’m just thinking, as a condensed version, just listen to them all in continuity. It’s like, there we go. Boom.

Yeah. Especially if we can’t sleep at night, you and I could listen to people call us and leave us voicemails.

That’s right.

Say nice things about us.

“I feel bad about my life. Let me listen to this show. They love us…!”

“People like us. They really like us.”

That was a good one, Brett. I liked that one a lot.

Brett, thanks for liking so many of our episodes. I mean, I gave it a hard time because you picked 10. At least they were from this year. That’s also a callback… And the fact that you like so many of our shows is kind of amazing, isn’t it? I mean, I appreciate that.

One in particular, if you don’t mind.

Go ahead. Pick one, get into it.

Changelog interviews episode 592, “From Sun to Oxide.” Epic. I thought he would pee himself during the podcast. [laughter]

You thought Bryan Cantrill was going to pee himself.

I thought Bryan would – well, he drank like three Diet Cokes or something like that, like during the podcast.

When you say ‘epic’, you mean it literally in terms of length.

Oh, yeah. It was long. I think it was as long as I could maybe have ever gone.

Probably our longest episode.

I think so, honestly.

That wasn’t a – sometimes when we do anthologies, they get long. But single conversation.

Yeah. Let me, just for –

Well I can sort by duration pretty easily. I do have a –

153 minutes. That’s two hours, 33 minutes.

I do happen to have our database available to me.

Okay…

And I can –

Sort it by length.

Query it for – exactly. We have audio duration as a field… And I will say “Order by audio duration.” Okay, so in terms of audio duration, if we take out the anthologies, which was Adam’s brilliant idea - I hadn’t thought of it - and limit it to this year, the longest episode was “From Sun to Oxide”, with Bryan Cantrill. So yes, the longest episode of the year, except for “Microsoft is all-in on AI Part II”, which had three interviews on it. Now, that’s this year. Should I pull out this year and just see of all time? Let’s see of all time now. Boom. 708 rows. This is from interviews and Friends, all time… And the longest episode of all time is “From Sun to Oxide” with Bryan Cantryll. So there you go. Confirmed.

Yeah. I mean, I thought he was gonna burst.

And the second-longest that’s not an anthology is “From Chef to System Initiative”, which we already covered.

Right.

So these deep-dives… Expect more like this, I think, next year. Adam going deep, one on one…

So deep.

It’s like Founders Talk, on the Changelog… It’s beautiful.

It is beautiful. Some would say it’s better.

Especially when the ads are removed… [laughter] Because then it’s even shorter. Because they’re long enough. Okay.

Yes, truth.

Moving on to our next voicemail… This is Nabil Suleman.

[00:53:50.02]

Hello, Adam and Jerod. Congratulations on another great year. Really, so many of the episodes on the Changelog are amazing… But really, ones that have stuck out to me, especially just looking through the list of episodes this year, really anything with Kelsey Hightower or the Oxide folks have just been, you know, great episodes, and I’ve really enjoyed them. I also really liked the Moneyball episode. It was just a nice exploration of entrepreneurship and software that doesn’t necessarily have to be like a rocket ship startup.

Other episodes - the Bobiverse books and the talk about that… I listened to those books this year, and then really enjoyed them all… I’m kind of sad I listened to them a little too fast, and finished them all in about a week. The ergonomic keyboards episode was great. The “Right to repair” episode was really great. And I think there were several episodes on home lab things, and I really liked those, too. For me the Changelog is a big source of – a discovery for new types of software and things like that, that I had never heard of before. This year it was Zulip, I think, in particular. And it was great timing, because I was getting tired of Slack and the other mainstream chat platforms… And yeah, Zulip was just a nice breath of fresh air, and yeah, I’ve really really liked using it.

From other years especially, [unintelligible 00:55:01.20] were two pieces of software that are still a very big part of my software systems now, and I really appreciate being introduced to these softwares through your podcast.

Anyways, thanks again for a great year, and I’m looking forward to the next.

I dig it, because Nabil was – he started the WordPress drama thread, by the way, and has been consistently posting in there. And that’s been going on for a while, so much so that I’m scrolling back… So September 21st Nabil posted “Odd drama going on in the WordPress land. Thoughts?” and linked out to like two X posts. And then yes, Don McKinnon just after that, so maybe that was where you were connecting it, a little behind the scenes there… But yeah, I dig those. I mean, thanks for listening. So awesome.

Yeah.

And being in Zulip.

That’s right.

And joining us there, and threading up the threads.

I like to hear stories like this one, where it’s like “I’ve found cool technology because of the show. I adopted cool technology. Now my life is better because of cool technology.” For me, that’s kind of what we are all about, is like finding cool stuff, showing it to people, talking about it. That’s a win. It’s a big win.

Yeah, it’s always been this spotlight kind of nature behind the scenes. This exposure. This “Where is the light less shined?” and shine it there, and see what’s over there. And sometimes it’s not so much duds, but like, just cool stuff, but not so interesting.

Yeah.

And then sometimes it’s like “Wow. There was a diamond in the rough over there, and we’ve found that thing”, and now it’s like “Boom.” You know, all the places, doing all the things. Like Zulip.

Clean it off, shine it up… Now we’re hanging out in Zulip.

And Bobiverse…

Oh, yeah.

The Bobiverse has got to be exposed there. It’s not software, but it is books.

Certainly on your list, the Dennis E. Taylor episode…

Yeah, it is on my list.

How does it feel that your list is almost entirely predictable?

Well…

Have you got any surprises in there?

I don’t know, I mean - is that a good thing or a bad thing? You tell me.

That’s why I asked you how you feel. I don’t know if it’s good or bad.

I feel like that that means that I’m probably in alignment with our audience.

No, I mean not predictable by them. By me. I know which ones you’re gonna pick. It’s just because I know you so well…

Well… Yeah, I’m cool with that.

There you go. That’s what I mean.

I dig it.

Okay, good. So do I. Here’s Nabil’s remix.

[00:57:21.02]

It’s got some Donkey Kong vibes.

I was just gonna say that.

Yeah.

Donkey Kong. Yup. The other vibe I get is Rain Man. Didn’t that kind of have like Rain Man vibes? “I just really like rocket ships…” Just the way he remixed it.

Yes.

The obsession with a specific thing.

Tropical Freeze.. We need a new version of Tropical Freeze.

I am down.

DK for life.

I’m 100% down.

Yeah.

For some more DK. All day.

All day.

DK all day, man. That’s what I always say.

So I’ve been listening to some synthwave remixes of, I guess gamey soundtracks, remixed; like synthwave style. And Donkey Kong Country etc. translates very well. Retro Kid on YouTube… Check him out. Amazing. Yeah. I code to those beats…

Nice.

And I’ve archived them to my Plex, by the way…

Did you try out Archive Box?

No, I have a Plex, so I’ve just been plexing it. But the principles of Archive Box have crept into my life.

Right. Well, you had mentioned that maybe you were working too hard, and this might be easier, but you already have it solved. So it’s just…

Yeah. I already have the software, and I already have an uptime guarantee on it, and etc. So…

Yeah.

I’m just plexing it, essentially. I’m just moving it into my music category in Plex, and I go to Retro Kid and I push Play, and all the albums just queue up… And I work.

Sweet.

And there’s a good Zelda track in there. So you would be –

Bring it.

Yeah. You’d love it.

I’m currently playing the new Zelda, Echoes of Wisdom, where you get to play as Zelda herself. My little daughters love it, and we are playing it right now. It’s a classic. Zelda… Exactly what you’d expect. So far we’re about 45 minutes in, so I can’t review it entirely, but so far so good. Who’s this? It’s our old friend, Lars Wickman.

[00:59:50.18]

Hi. This is Lars Wickman, long-time listener, occasional guest. I recently did my PocketCasts Wrapped type of deal, and three of my top four most frequently listened podcasts had the same theme, as in visual theme, as in dark with neon green colors. And to most people maybe Changelog does not have that. For Changelog++ members, it does. And of course, it’s better.

But yeah, the other ones are acquired, and Oxide & Friends. And you’ve done the Oxide & Friends crossover, and I appreciate it greatly. So… Acquired crossover next? Maybe. That’d be cool. And aside from that, I really appreciated the episodes with the Beatmaster – Breakmaster Cylinder. I’m sorry. And since went to Bandcamp and picked up his back catalog for not that much money. And now I have a bunch of his hits, among others Changelog Dance Party, burned out on mini disc, and I play them in my office. So that’s what I’m up to.

What do you think about that, Adam? Maybe getting Acquired in ’25 on the show?

I’m down. I’m on the .fm right now. Acquired.fm, checking it out. I’ve heard of the show. I haven’t listened to too many of them…

It’s very popular. I haven’t listened to it either, but people love it. I think they do a good job.

I’m down. Crossover away. Let’s do it.

We’ll see if they’re down.

You know, I’m seeing their About page and it seems like they’re maybe on a stage. I think this next year – I want to call it a conference, but it’ll be cool to do a live podcast. Like sell tickets, do a live podcast… That’d be kind of cool. Have you seen this, where it’s like a thing that podcasters are doing? I’m wondering if – could we sell 50 tickets maybe?

I wouldn’t sell 50…

In a city? I think if you went to like New York, or San Francisco, or…

Yeah, or Austin.

Austin even. Maybe Austin. Austin’s kind of small though. It’s big-small.

Yeah, but it’s tech-big, to a certain extent.

Yeah. I suppose Elon’s doing something there.

And it’s centrally located. Like, people will fly, maybe.

True.

Or drive.

I mean, it is my backyard, so I’m down.

I mean, SF would be much easier though.

I just have less hope that we have a ton of listeners here. I think we have more, based on our stats.

I’ve shipped out some shirts and some other merch lately, and I’m telling you, Texas listens.

Okay. Alright. I’m wrong then. I love it.

Not necessarily wrong. I’m just saying there are some people there. Anywho… Yeah, that would be cool. I also think it’s super-rad that Lars is creating mini discs of BMC beats, and stuff, and listening to them on mini disc. I mean… Analog. – I mean, not literally analog, but like real life for the win.

Real life for the win…

Hardware. Physical media for the win, is what I meant to say.

Yeah, physical media is cool. I don’t know if I like physical media, personally. I think it’s cool, but like… Maybe not.

Good take.

Good take.

“It’s cool, but maybe not.” [laughter]

Y’all didn’t see his face. He was struggling to figure out what to say, and he came up with “Good take.”

Well, I was about to opine, and then I’m like “I’m just gonna leave it. Good take.”

Oh, gosh. You should opine. At least a sentence…

I like physical things. I of course also lived through a time period where I was digitizing all my things… I don’t like to print, but I also kind of think printing’s cool now. So it’s like, what’s old is new again, and I think that physical media has a tangibility to it that we desire. And so in that way it is cool. Obviously, there’s lots of drawbacks; like, you know, your dog eats it, or something.

My vehicle can’t play it. It’s useless to me in like the places I consume content.

Well, how about a record player, like in your house. Do you think that would be cool?

I would love a record player. So that’s cool. I would go there, yeah.

Yeah. That’s kind of what he’s doing, it sounds like, with mini discs, you know…

Okay, that’s cool then. Okay, I’ll take it back then. I need more context.

Oh, I’m glad I opined.

I’m down for that kind of thing. Like, I want a listening room, Jerod.

This is like intentional listening, I feel like is what he’s doing… Which is very much what a record player is like. It’s like, “I’m gonna listen to this now.”

Yeah. It’s not like “Oh, let’s just queue up artists…”

Right. “Let me just download this off YouTube, and just throw it in my Plex and get to work.” No, this is like “Let’s sit down and enjoy some Breakmaster Cylinder beats.” Alright. Lars - remix him.

[01:04:05.19]

[laughs] “I have a dance party in my office. That’s what I’m up to.”

So I can say that the – I don’t know if this is how your household went, Jerod, but the moment that dance party was on the actual, I guess proverbial airwaves, like on Spotify, I was like “Okay, that’s when it’s real.”

Yeah.

And you know, obviously, we QA’ed it, we kind of like previewed some things, but I didn’t listen to it with intention and enjoyment and motion - like, body motion - until it was on Spotify. And the moment it was, I queued it up, and legit me and the kids just danced. They mainly danced a lot. I just like moved a little, you know? They were really having a lot of fun, for like the whole thing. We just listened end to end, the entire album. It was awesome.

Yeah, it’s just a cool thing to have that be real. I definitely got cooler in my kids’ eyes when we had some actual beats on Apple Music and Spotify, even though we were not the artists, we were just the curators of this music…

Just a vessel. We’re a vessel for which these things came.

We were part of the creative process, you know… But BMC does all the creation.

The true creation. Yeah.

And I will say that that Dracula’s Purse… You know, that sound just immediately triggers, in a good way, me and my kids… And it’s just like “Yeah, here we go.”

Yes.

Which… I think Dracula’s Purse is – which is the first real track off of Next Level, the video game inspired one… I think that’s our most listened-to track on the proverbial airwaves. It’s the most popular one now.

It makes sense, because the Castlevania soundtrack was just phenomenal.

Yeah.

And Dracula’s Purse is obviously an homage to Dracula’s Curse, which was the true music that came from the video game that literally everybody loves way more than Zelda…

Hah! [laughs]

Just saying… Just saying.

We could take a poll. I think you might lose that one.

It would probably lose.

It would. No offense. It’s just not as popular. It’s more of a cult classic.

It’s a dang shame.

Hey man, I love Castlevania. So you’re not going to get me to disagree. Although the fact that you don’t like Zelda…

I do like Zelda, I just never got into it as much.

Right.

That’s all.

Fair enough.

I identified more so with Castlevania. You know, it just had different touch points, I suppose. It might have been the first NES game I maybe bought, or… Like, there was some connection to it where it was up there more than Zelda. And I also grew up poor, so I don’t think I was able to afford Zelda for many years… I think I had to play at my friends. It was gold, so it was cool, you know…

It had the gold cartridge, but it didn’t cost any more than the other games.

Yeah, it was super-cool, you know… I didn’t have the bling to get the thing, you know. I’m sorry.

[laughs] You had to settle for Castlevania.

Yeah.

Alright, moving on… Here comes Nick Nisi.

[01:07:44.18]

My favorite episodes of the Changelog are the ones where Adam and Jerod just let loose and just get so excited about the topics that they’re discussing. That’s things like homelab for Adam. His face just lights up. You can hear it in his voice.

He gets very excited about that. And the same thing goes for Jerod when it comes to TypeScript. You just can’t control how excited he is about type-safe JavaScript, and it really shows in the podcasts.

Aside from that, I really enjoyed hanging with you guys at THAT Conference in January. Seeing you work the hallway and get amazing interviews from attendees and speakers, and playing a really fun game of JS Danger… That was so fun.

Thank you for all that you do, and I am very much looking forward to what this new Changelog Podcast Universe is all about.

So much emotion, Nick. I appreciate that.

Nick brings it.

He does bring it. So then I’m thinking, like, okay, he was joking about you obviously, because you hate TypeScript…

So was he joking about you?

Or at least you do on the podcast. And I’m thinking like maybe he thinks I don’t like homelab, and he’s not telling the truth about me…

[laughs] I think he was being sincere with yours and joking with mine.

Gotcha. It’s part of the shtick, right?

It’s a setup. See, he set it up.

Yes…

Right. Nick’s a showman, you know?

Good one, Nick.

He knows how to set it up and knock it down.

I think that was the first time I met Nick.

Yeah.

Well, no, I’d met Nick back at the JS Conference back in like Nebraska times…

The very first Nebraska JSConf, yeah.

Yeah. And we’ve obviously digitally hung out…

Right.

Zooms, and Riversides, and podcasts…

But I don’t think you guys hung out back at that. We were very busy… There were so many balls in the air, between organizing the conference and trying to do Beyond Code, the video thing we were up to…

Yes.

It was a whirlwind.

We should bring that back, just for fun, to see what people who never saw that, just to get a glimpse of like the experiments, you know? The trials and tribulations.

Right. It’s out there. There’s a playlist on our YouTube. I’m not going to link to it directly, but it’s there.

“I’m not going to link to it directly…”

[laughs]

“You will not get a link from me.”

It was the very first Changelog films effort, I think.

Yes, it was – I do want to say though, about Nick… He’s actually pretty cool. He’s actually pretty cool.

[laughs] Surprise…!

Yeah.

Except for the whole TypeScript thing. I just don’t understand why. Why the love? Why the fanaticism?

You know, there’s some things you just can’t know.

It’s like, you know, TypeScript is kind of the Java of JavaScript… Nick would agree. And no one gets excited about Java. I mean, it’s fine. It does its job. But what is there to get excited about, and love, and fanboy over TypeScript? Like, types. Static types. It’s not exciting. Maybe you think it’s better, but… I don’t know. Let’s just listen to Nick’s remix.

Let me just say, it is not better.

TypeScript is not better. Yeah. It’s worse. Here we go.

[01:10:39.24]

TypeScript saves another day.

Another day…

Maybe that’s why, Jerod.

Maybe. I mean, I’m almost converted. You’re right.

Yeah. That was good preaching right there. Good preaching.

Yeah. Alright, next up, Rusty Nail.

[01:11:43.11]

Hello there, listeners. My favorite moments of the year are, number one - big thanks for remastering “10,000 hours of deliberate programming.” That was my overall favorite episode for the two plus years that I’ve listened to the podcast.

And I’ve been meaning to come back to that episode. However, I don’t have to do that, now that I relistened to it again in the main feed. Number two, in Go Time 332, the discussion of the founder mode led me to a conclusion that I’ve always had it in myself, but I didn’t know how it was called… And during this summer, on one of the interviews I was asked what made me an outlier among my peers and co-workers. And now I know what should have been the answer, which at the moment I did not. Now I am prepared for the next one.

In the episode 611 of Changelog I was really excited to hear the voices of the core Python developer team. I’ve programmed in Python all my career, and I have never interacted with these people in any way. Hearing the voices, I was genuinely excited about it.

In Practical AI 257 it was mentioned how the role of corporate culture and non-tech people impacts the AI adoption in big corporations and organizations. And that was an eye-opening moment for me. So I was really excited to hear that.

Number five - my absolute favorite episode of the year is when the secret service or police was knocking on the door… I think it was episode 609, for not even hacking, but vulnerability reporting. And with a few of the jokes that went along with the story.

Next, we share a fun fact in our morning stand-ups, and the day I learned about the bus factor from the Changelog & Friends number 70, I had to share the fun fact. I shared with the team what the bus factor was, but it was actually called morbid by our CEO.

And finally, I think we’re missing an insane hiring market episode this year… And this was the year that I shifted my job. First time over the last five years. And if you are going to do it, I do have a question to ask… It’s more like a paradox. If everyone complains about not having enough talent and people to hire, when you apply for a job at some company, you never hear anything back if you don’t have any connections there. How does this paradox happen?

Good question. We did not do an insane hiring market with Gergely Orosz this fall. We normally did it every fall.

Yeah, what’s up with that?

And I can’t speak for you, Adam, but I just forgot about it this time…

Oh, gosh.

Did you forget about it, or…?

I would like to say that maybe the well has dried up on – and maybe, I don’t know, should we dip back into that hiring market? It seems like we should. It was enjoyed. I love Gergely, I love talking to him.

Yeah, people like that. I think we should definitely get Gergely on the show. He does have his own podcast now, so… That’s a thing. But maybe, you know, that could be a January thing. It doesn’t have to be in the fall. It can be whenever we want it to be. So we could queue that up for Rusty…

Let’s do it.

…and ask that question.

Yeah. I like doing it in the fall, though. It’s a good end cap to the year, because it’s almost like “How did we get here, and where are we going?”

Well, we dropped the ball in the fall, though.

Yeah.

So maybe we’ll just wait till next fall.

Maybe.

Sometimes two years is the right amount of years.

Sometimes. But I was pumping my fist on the best/worst codebase… That was a good one. I love that story.

Yeah, great story. 10,000 hours remastered…

That was actually – I liked how that worked out, actually. We had a gap, and we were thinking about what to do… And I was like “Let’s remaster an oldie, but a goodie.” So I’m glad at least one person really enjoyed it. I think that it got re-listened to another 25-ish thousand times, maybe 21,000 times… At least based on the site stats. And the remastered version actually has some cool stuff. Chapters…! So the first time we did it was pre-chapters, and now it has chapters, so this listening experience might actually be slightly more enjoyable, because you can jump around. Cue the music.

[01:16:18.05]

Oh, my gosh… I don’t know if this was it or not… I was thinking maybe those numbers at the end might have been like 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42, which is from the TV show Lost.

That would have been cool. That would have been a good tie-in.

Still good though. Still good.

Yeah, that was fun.

He would have had to say the numbers to get that to do that. But…

Yeah, that’d be hard. You have to have specific numbers that maybe Rusty didn’t say.

Yeah. When I said “Cue the music”, I was thinking the song Jump Around though…

[01:17:29.22]

“I came to get down, I came to get down, so get off your feet and jump around”?

“I came to get down, so get off your feet and jump around.” That’s right.

There you go. Cypress Hill, kids.

No…

That’s Cypress Hill, isn’t it?

No, that’s… It’s the… The Leprechauns.

What?!

Not the Leprechauns…

House of Pain.

Yeah.

I told you. House of Pain.

You said Cypress Hill.

Listen to this… It’s produced by DJ Muggs of Cypress Hill, who also covered the song. Alright? So… Take that.

What?!

That’s right. Jump Around.

I don’t know about this history. School me quickly.

Okay. Jump Around is a song by the American hip hop group House of Pain, produced by DJ Muggs of Cypress Hill, who has also covered the song. And it was released in May 1992 by Tommy Boy and XL as the first single from their debut album, House of Pain. So I wasn’t wrong, I just had it wrong… Sort of. There’s a tie-in. There’s a reason why I thought it was Cypress Hill. But yeah, it’s House of Pain.

That’s cool. I didn’t know that.

Yeah.

Glad you messed up, but didn’t.

Same. I’m always glad when I mess up and it’s not actually a mess-up. Alright. Who’s this? Oh, it’s only Mat Ryer…

[01:18:50.05]

Hello, everybody. Mat Ryer here. I just want to say a big thank you to everybody that supported us with the Go Time podcast, and everything that I do on Changelog & Friends. It’s a platform – you know, they just make great podcasts, and I can’t wait to see what the future of Changelog is going to look like. Oh, sorry, I’m just – oh, what? Oh, Change – oh, yeah. Changelog. No, no, no. Now you’ve said it. That is really – yeah, it’s obvious now, but… Oh, I’ve only seen it written down. You’re right. Yeah, okay. That’s really clever.

Well, happy new year, everyone, and I hope you let me come and be an idiot a bit on future podcasts. Love you all. Bye!

Wow. Changelog.

Oh, Mat…

I don’t know what to say that. Mat’s a character.

I’ll say this… Stay tuned, because Mat Ryer will be our very first friend of 2025. It’s already booked. So…

As it should be.

It’s the way it should be. Get with your friends. It was the pilot for Friends…

It was. It was the inspiration. The proving ground, so to speak.

Proving ground, yeah.

Oh, and Mat’s always up to something. And he is – I’ll tell you this also. He is up to something for this next episode of Changelog & Friends.

Oh, really?

He’s up to something.

Do you know what the something is?

I know a little bit about it… But I’m not going to say any more than that.

What might it involve? Just give us like one hint. Off color, if you have to. Whatever. Not direct.

Yes, and.

Oh. That’s so revealing… [laughter] You said it so quickly like as if you had it queued up.

No, I didn’t. You put me on the spot. I thought “This is a good hint.” Is that too much? Okay.

Okay. Here’s Mat Ryer remixed.

Let’s do it.

[01:20:35.00]

I told you, BMC has some new toys.

I’m just not sure what this show has become. I think it might be like a show-off center for Breakmaster Cylinder. And then obviously, a show-off center for our listeners. Very much not about us at all.

Yeah. At least a playground, yeah.

I keep trying to talk, and I keep getting cut off by these voicemails, and stuff… [laughter]

Well, there’s something poetic about that…

Mat. Oh, I’m looking forward to it. I’m looking forward to it.

I should say, we might have to bleep that, but I wouldn’t know. I have no idea what she was saying. I assume it was what Mat was saying, in French.

It’s possible.

I have no idea. So if you can hear that and translate it for us…

I’ll have my daughter listen to it. She speaks French.

Okay.

Yeah.

We’ve reached our final caller… Any guesses, Adam, on who it might be, the person that might leave a voicemail at the very last moment?

Give me a second…

Need a hint?

Sure.

It’s the same as the last caller last year. It’s a big hint. Unless you didn’t make it at the end of the show before you fell asleep.

I fell asleep. I fell asleep. [laughs]

Jamie Tanna.

Oh, gosh. Yes. Jamie Tanna.

Just in Time Jamie. That’s what we call him.

[laughs] Really?

I just made that up on the spot. That’s a good one though.

I love it.

Yeah, that’s nice.

It’s so… Yeah, I was going to make a timing joke, but I can’t find my words.

Alright. Well, let’s hear it from Jamie then.

[01:22:42.16]

Hey, Adam and Jerod. It’s Jamie Tanna here. Thanks for another awesome year of Changelog Plus Plus. It is so much better. So much better.

I think I’m making this a tradition of me submitting late, so I am sorry again… But hopefully, I managed to make it in time. I probably didn’t, but we’ll find out this week.

I think that’s probably a good segue into what my favorite episode of the year has been, which I’m probably a little bit biased, because it was me. In February, I joined you on Friends 31 to talk about being public, how ADHD affects me, including being late to submitting things like this… Dependency management data, and I also kickstarted my podcast career, where I followed up with a conversation on Go Time in episode 328 about OpenAPI.

But enough about me. This year has been an epic year for Changelog, in particular the first year of Friends in full, which I’ve been incredibly thoroughly enjoying… Which you may be able to guess from me listening to a whopping 45 episodes this year, including one that I’ve finished listening to this morning.

Some of my favorite episodes this year, especially in Friends, have been the new [unintelligible 01:23:53.08] episodes, Friends 47 and 59, which have been really fun listening on my own, but also with my partner, as a fun different thing to listen to… As well as meeting some really awesome and interesting people at the different hallway tracks at conferences you’ve been at.

I also really enjoyed listening to Adam and Jerod solo, either in Friends 70, or the Plus Plus special episode at Build 2024. I’m hearing a bit more from the two of you, because we always hear from your point of view from behind the mic.

Data-wise, I’ve been split on Go Time interviews, listening to 38 podcasts a piece this year, and then Ship It just behind, with 35 lessons.

In total, according to my podcast app, in 2024 I’ve listened to eight days worth of podcasts with you all. It’s been great, but it’s bittersweet with the news of the Changelog Podcasting Universe. I’m cautiously optimistic for the future, and I hope that in the coming year I’ll be having some similar numbers across the whole podcast universe.

Just quickly, to go back to interviews, there’s been some really incredible interviews this last year… But to give just three of my top ones - Bryan Cantrill in Interviews 592, Acon from Hack Club in Interviews 620, and Danny Thompson in Interviews 617. A bunch of really interesting and diverse thoughts.

And yeah, I’ve loved the way that you have just some really incredible people from different walks of life, different stages of career, different viewpoints… I’m going to stop rambling now. I want to say thanks again to all the many, many folk who have contributed to another really great year of Changelog. Plus, it is better. It’s so much better. It’s been better for years. Get in on that.

I love how “It’s better!” has become a thing. Like an unstoppable freight train. I love that it’s so recycled throughout. It’s a dumb thing I said one time, just like messing around, you know? And it stuck. And my kids mimic it as well. My youngest, my five-year-old, in their kid voice. “Changelog Plus Plus. It’s better.” They hold their nose, because they make it sound nasally, for some reason. I’m not sure if I should be offended or not, but… The Danny Thompson one, I liked that. I’m glad that got out there.

[01:26:25.11] Yeah, that one almost didn’t make it out.

Yeah, it was… Can you talk about the travels the data had to go through to get to us to become an MP3 on the airwaves?

I’m holding it in my hand, which you would see if we had video-first production… A Nick Nisi hard drive, which holds something like 35 gigabytes of film - the proverbial film, not actual film - from our stuff at THAT Conference. And this had to come by way… We were at THAT Conference in Austin, Texas. Our Danny Thompson interview is on here… And it took a long time to get it gathered together. I’m not sure the whole story… But Clark Sell diligently gathered… It was just too much to just send us. I mean, that’s a lot of data. And so the idea was like Sneakernet, I guess, for the win. And so Clark saw Nick at this summer’s THAT Conference in Wisconsin. So there’s two THAT Conferences, Austin, Texas and Wisconsin Dells. And Nick happened to have this hard drive on him, so Clark gave him the 35 gigs or whatever it is, and put it on the hard drive… I actually think it’s more than that, now that I’m saying it. It’s something ridiculous, like 500 gigabytes. It was just too much to just put them through Dropbox, or something, I guess.

And Nick sneakernetted it via an airplane back to his house, and then I had lunch with him… Because you know, Nick and I both live in the Omaha, Nebraska area. I’m in Bennington, which is Northwest of Omaha, and he’s in Bellevue, which is kind of Southeast Omaha. So we aren’t super-close together; probably a 40-minute drive if he was going to come to my house. But we meet in the middle and have lunch sometimes. And so he brought me this to lunch, and I went through it, and I extracted it, and I gave it to Jason, our editor… And Jason did his best with it and he handed it to you, and we said “Can we ship this interview?”

And you know, the audio wasn’t our standard quality, and so there were some questions. And it wasn’t that long, honestly. It was kind of a shorter episode. And so we actually almost deep-sixed it, didn’t we, Adam?

Uh, we came close. We almost deep-sixed it because we thought about – what was it about it?

Well, it didn’t sound amazing, and it was a little bit shorter than we normally do…

Right.

And we thought, “Well, wouldn’t we just get Danny back on the pod and just do it fresh, like a real episode?”, which was another route we could have went. But you know, this is a business. We do put shows out on the weekly, and we needed a show that week. So it’s like, that was definitely part of the decision-making process. We can’t act like it wasn’t. We have sponsors who count on us to put shows out, and so I was like “Can this be a standalone episode?” And I’m glad that at least for Jamie it was one of the best of the year. Hopefully, other people liked it, too.

Danny was over the moon, because I saw Danny at All Things Open and I told him “I don’t think we’re going to get that episode out.” And thankfully, it was about his life story more than it was about current events or anything, because it was last January that we recorded it. So it was pretty much evergreen…

Well, this January. Last year – if you’re listening to this in 2025, last January.

January of ’24.

Yes. Gotta give to get back.

Yeah, gotta give…

Gotta give to get back.

…to get back.

I’m glad we got it out there, because I think that I don’t know Danny’s full story, aside from what we had shared there. But I think he had been newer, or newish to sharing his story, especially on stage… I think since then he’s had more reps, and so we actually may be late to the party in terms of sharing that story…

Sure.

But obviously, he’s sharing it on a conference stage. So to set the stage a bit more, elongated, but shortened… Is that even a thing…?

I don’t know…

We were on stage with Danny. Did we pass the mic back and forth?

I don’t think so.

Yeah, okay. I think we each had our own mics. But they were handheld mics, they weren’t like stationary mics. We had them handheld, so we can pull them away from our face, so there’s no breath going on… And then we had some Q&A afterwards. And so the Q&A didn’t fit, and so if you were at the conference, it was a lengthy conversation, with more context. As a podcast, the Q&A just didn’t fit, because it was so contextual to the conference, and the screens in front of us… And so it just made sense to like trim that. But I’m glad we got it out. I’m glad that the Sneakernet worked out, I’m glad Nick had his hard drive, I’m glad Clark Sell came through and got us the data… And even if it was recorded January 30th and published November 14th, that’s cool. At least we still shipped it, you know?

Mm-hm.

And it was awesome. I dug it.

Alright. Jamie, thank you, as always for calling in just in time.

Just in time.

Here is your Breakmaster Cylinder Remix.

[01:31:08.28]

That one smacks.

So much better for years.

That beat’s a banger.

Check the scoreboard… The numbers don’t lie. I reversed it.

What’d you reverse?

Well, it’s actually “The numbers don’t lie. Check the scoreboard.”

Oh, I don’t know the saying.

Dude. Shaboy!

Excuse me? [laughter]

It’s Jay-Z.

That’s a Jay-Z line?

Yeah, man.

Here’s my concern with Jay-Z… I like the man’s music and everything, and Shaboy certainly comes from it… But it turns out he might be like a really awful person.

Turns out?

Yeah. Well, you know, the P. Diddy tapes are dropping, and Jay-Z maybe implicated in some seriously wicked stuff. And not wicked in the Boston accent kind of a way.

Wicked smot. Wicked bad.

Wicked smot.

Wicked bad.

Yeah. So anyways, distancing myself perhaps… I’m not going to drop the Shaboy, but most people don’t even know what it is.

Well, I thought because of the Shaboy, you would know…

I don’t know that verse.

It’s “Numbers don’t lie. Check the scoreboard.”

Okay. I know I’ve pointed at a scoreboard before, especially in high school basketball, and said “Scoreboard.”

Well, that’s a thing. I mean, I think it’s a thing, and he made it a lyric. He didn’t create it. He didn’t coin it.

Yeah, I was gonna say, he stole it from me when I was in high school. I used to do that.

Yeah, come on. Theft. Now add that to the list.

Yeah, yeah. An idea theft. Copyright. Okay, so good attempt… We missed the layup on that one. It was my fault. But that’s it. That’s our 12 voicemails and remixes. Thank you, BMC, thank you to all of our listeners… But now it’s our turn to talk.

Oh, yes…

[laughs]

It’s a whole new show now. Chapter marker, drop it…

Part two.

Another hour of show coming up. Get ready. We’re going for a bathroom break, we’re shaking our legs… I’m just kidding.

Favorite episodes of ours. How many of yours are left standing?

Let me just say one thing before we truly break over…

Okay.

…because I recall the podcast with Jamie.

Yes.

I recall being there, obviously. I recall the show was awesome.

Good.

I do not recall titling that show “Yeeting Stuff Into Public.” Did you title that sans me? Was I on vacation, or something?

It was like a Friday afternoon. I just slapped a title on it and went.

Okay.

Well, he said that.

Did he? Okay.

And it was all about him doing like public – his whole public salary, and writing, and everything…

Yeeting is a term? What is yeeting?

Yeeting?

Yeeting. Yeah.

To yeet something is to throw it.

TIL.

Yeah. It’s what the kids are saying. Or at least they were saying it about 10 years ago. I think it’s kind of old.

Yeeting.

Yeah, yeeting. Yeet!

See, I mean –

You say that when you just toss somebody. Yeet!

I didn’t toss anybody, for one…

[laughs] No, it’s not you. Jamie was yeeting stuff into public… He’d just been throwing stuff into public, you know?

I got it. I’m getting it. But –

Okay. Yeah, I titled that one without you. Sometimes we just roll. I have an idea, I like it… I’m just going to publish that sucker.

Same. It’s so obvious. Why check?

Exactly. Especially when it’s something that they say on the show. It’s like too easy.

I have a long list, okay? I’m not even sure that I can express this list. It’s lengthy.

Well, while we’re bikeshedding titles, should we just get the titles out of the way? Favorite titles. Did you write some down?

Oh, yeah.

Okay. Let’s just do that one quick, because it’s less emotional…

Can we do it quick? Let’s do it.

Yeah.

Me or you?

Let’s just go back and forth. Okay, me first. Great title. “It’s not always DNS.”

That’s in – I won’t say it.

Oh, that’s in your favorite list.

Yeah.

I liked that one because we wanted to call it “It’s always DNS”, but we realized on the show that Paul Vixie actually didn’t like that statement, and so we inverted it… Similar to the “Not Insane Tech Hiring Market.” And we said, “It’s not always DNS.” So that’s why I liked that one. Your turn.

“You’ll rent chips and be happy.”

Oh, yeah. This was a recent Friends episode, wasn’t it?

Yeah.

And what were we talking about again?

Zach Smith, Equinix, Metal fame…

Right.

Previously to that was Packet.

Right.

But they go back to the…

We talked about subscriptions inside of data centers, and stuff.

Right. Because of – like, recycling hardware, and kind of having the best tech.

Right. And his big idea is to recycle the hardware and subscribe to it…

Yes.

And people were not down with his idea, by the way. We had lots of people writing in “This isn’t a good idea. I don’t know data centers, I don’t know big data business…”

Who wrote this in? Where did they write this in at? In Zulip? Did I miss the chat?

There was some chat. I don’t remember.

Oh, dang.

Probably Zulip, probably internets…

Okay.

But interesting conversation. It brought out a lot of people’s thoughts… And great title. Because we were talking about the whole World Economic Forum, and “You’ll own nothing and be happy”, and this is “You will rent chips”, these are GPUs, “and be happy.” Good one.

My turn. “Retirement is for suckers.” [laughs]

That is a good one.

Oh… Talk about a quote. I mean, he literally said that.

Cameron…!

Cameron Seay came out right at the beginning and was just like “Retirement’s for suckers.”

And that was the show title.

Show title.

You will like this one. I think it’s the best one of the year… If there was an award for the best title of the year, this is it.

Okay…

“The wrong place to slap a person.”

[laughs]

I believe it’s the best of the year.

That one is in my list as well.

I think it’s stands still yet. That’s the wrong place to slap a person. I mean, it’s created some major waves, a lot of drama… I mean, would it be different if it was done differently? Maybe. I don’t think so.

Of course, referring to the Matt Mullenweg call-out of WPEngine at WordCamp. That’s the wrong place to slap a person. We recorded this Friends episode…

Yes.

…I think with Nick Nisi as well, right after that event. And so that’s what this thing is referring to. And Adam said that on the show. I do like to have show titles that are something that was said on the show. I think it’s a nice, easy way of having a tie-in… Especially when you don’t know what it means at first, and then you hear it later on the show. I’ve always enjoyed that.

[01:42:00.11] It does make it sweeter.

I agree. That was in my list of best titles. How about this one? “The old hot and juicy.”

That’s in my list, too.

[laughs]

Adam’s the best. “The old hot and juicy.” Gosh… What was the context? Why did he say that? Do you recall?

It was similar to “a horse head in your bed.” It’s the offer you can’t refuse. The old hot and juicy is like this thing that’s like – he was referring to the article written by [unintelligible 01:42:25.17] about OpenTofu potentially copyright infringing Terraform.

Yes.

And the old hot and juicy is like –

Can I quote him, from the transcript?

Yeah, go ahead.

Adam Jacobs says “Yeah, and the reputation dragging was the reason to do it. Somebody replied to me on Twitter and called the cease and desist letter the old hot and juicy.”

Right.

So the letter was the old hot and juicy.

Okay, not the article.

Not the article.

But he said old hot and juicy like three or four more times on that show…

I think so.

…and it became the show title. Have you got another one?

The BSOD CrowdStrikes Back.

That’s my other one. This was, of course, our CrowdStrike episode with Robert Ross.

Probably should have said it differently… BSOD.

The Blue Screen of Death.

To drag it out doesn’t like let it land… The BSOD CrowdStrikes Back.

Right. Well, of course, we are referring to the Empire Strikes Back, but it’s the Blue Screen of Death that’s CrowdStriking back…

Yes.

Because it did, man. All of a sudden, here comes the BSOD striking a PC near you around the CrowdStrike debacle.

Incident. Yeah, debacle. It’s probably a debacle. Well, it’s an incident, for sure…

Oh, for sure.

A scalable incident, at that.

Bigger than an incident. Incident doesn’t do it justice. Debacle was a great word.

I haven’t caught up with the the ripples, though… Like, what’s changed as a result of this happening? That’d be good.

Yeah, I don’t know.

I mean, that can be kind of boring, maybe…

Well, if it’s interesting, then it’s interesting. But if it’s boring…

That’s true.

What’s changed? Very little. There’s a few more processes inside CrowdStrike now… Alright, last one for me, best title of the year… This one saved us from a bunch of other bad titles… From a bunch of bad titles that we had come up with before it. And the title is “MAJOR.SEMVER.PATCH.”

That was a good title.

All caps, of course. We had a hard time naming that episode we did about Semver… But why not use Semver to name Semver? …and call it a patch, because the whole thing was about how we can change Semver to make it better.

Yeah.

Can we have a major patch with Semver?

Solid title.

Yeah.

1999, A Film Odyssey.

That’s a Changelog Plus Plus only.

It’s a bonus show for those who are the cool people, you know… It’s better… Just saying…

[laughs] That actually almost made my list of favorite episodes, but I didn’t want to put it on, because I feel like that’s just rude.

Well, I did it for you.

Oh.

And I’m rude. And the last one was The Wu-Tang Way.

Yeah, that’s a good one.

Yeah. Good show, good title. Fun title.

Alright, here we go. Favorite episodes. How many of yours are left standing?

Standing? Like, have not been mentioned?

Like they haven’t been referenced by anybody else.

Let’s see here. Oh, one, two, three… Four. Technically, five.

So of my nine – I have five favorites and four honorable mentions. Of my nine, I have almost all of them. I have seven of nine.

Okay.

Maybe six, depending on how you count this one.

Do you just want to go through the list real fast?

Do you want to do all yours and then all mine? All mine and all yours? I think everyone’s waiting for me to reveal my unprecedented…

Yeah…

Because I mean, it’s been like an hour and a half…

I’m not, but I think they might be.

They’ve forgotten about it by now?

I’ve forgotten about it. But I’m down for it. I’m just kidding with you.

Alright, so here’s what I’m going to say… And I think you’re going to like this.

Okay.

One of my favorite episodes – these are in no particular order, okay? So they’re not like one through five. This is not my number one favorite episode.

Sure.

[01:45:54.29] But one of my five favorite episodes - unprecedented, never happened before - hasn’t come out yet, because it’s coming out today, or tomorrow, as we record… And it will be out in the feed on Friday. But I’m not sure if it’s my favorite, because it hasn’t been produced, but I’m pretty sure it’s going to be one of my favorites… Because it is Ghostty, with Mitchell Hashimoto.